Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: To baby trees.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Bonsai.
[00:00:05] Speaker C: Bonsai.
Bonsai time is the one thing you can't really make in bonsai, Right. Bonsai. I'm blessing the Black Pondo podcast.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: So bonsai is about people having a good time and enjoying themselves. If it's not fun, it's not bonsai.
[00:00:25] Speaker D: Bonsai or bonsai.
[00:00:26] Speaker E: Bonsai.
[00:00:27] Speaker C: Bonsai, Bonsai, Bonsai.
[00:00:30] Speaker F: That's my favorite subject. Well, first off, Jeff, congratulations on three awards and you now are the most winning bonsai enthusiast in the history of the Pacific Bonsai Expo. So I think it brings you to a total of six, Right? Is that correct?
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Six.
[00:00:50] Speaker D: Won six prizes. Yeah.
[00:00:51] Speaker F: That is incredible.
[00:00:53] Speaker D: Yeah, I feel pretty fortunate.
[00:00:55] Speaker F: Congratulations on that.
[00:00:57] Speaker D: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.
[00:00:58] Speaker F: So, yeah, I just wanted to chat with you and get a little of your background.
[00:01:03] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:01:04] Speaker F: Would you tell me a little bit about how you got into bonsai?
[00:01:09] Speaker D: Yeah. About 20 some odd years ago, I had a Japanese girlfriend who gave me a bonsai.
[00:01:18] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:01:18] Speaker D: Her uncle or great uncle or older relative was a bonsai enthusiast.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:28] Speaker D: She got a little bit of advice from him and I think she got it from Yuzo Maruyama, Sacramento.
So I had the bonsai bought. It was in the house. It was a, as I recall, as a hornbeam. Never outside. Didn't know any better. I didn't put it on the tv, but the classic. Right. Or the top of the refrigerator a little higher. But I.
But it kind of grew. It was kind of bushy. And after, you know, this whole year, I said, gee, I better figure out what to do with this. So I bought a sunset brook on bonsai. You know, the sort of.
[00:02:14] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:02:15] Speaker D: That maybe many of us had. Anyhow, this was around 04, 2000, actually 2001 or 2. I can't remember. Something like that.
And then I was able to find Johnny Uchida at Yamato who was giving night classes in Hayward.
I think it was something like 50 or $60 for like 10 classes or something.
And so I participated in that.
Then it became a kind of a slippery slope. Started buying more trees, got rid of my hornbeam. I think I also had a stump, trident maple, small one, maybe 12 inches tall, that I also traded back for something else. And I bought a lot of my early trees I bought from Yuzo or a Johnny Uchida.
[00:03:15] Speaker F: Okay.
[00:03:16] Speaker D: Probably a few years later, at the behest of a few friends, I was kind of introduced to Boone at BIB.
[00:03:27] Speaker F: What year was this around?
[00:03:28] Speaker D: That would have been 2004, I think I joined and I think I participated in the 2004 show or the 2005 show? I can't remember.
[00:03:39] Speaker F: So early on in BiB, what year did BiB start?
[00:03:43] Speaker D: I want to say 99.
[00:03:45] Speaker F: 99.
[00:03:46] Speaker D: I believe that might have been the first year. So I think that was the year he came back.
And Jonas was involved in that. A woman by the name of Janet Ross Morton. Well, Haven, I'm not sure who else. There's a few other people that by the time I got there, they were either out of bonsai or.
[00:04:07] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:04:08] Speaker F: When did Kirby start at bib?
[00:04:10] Speaker D: About the same time.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:11] Speaker D: He.
John Kirby took the intensive classes.
[00:04:17] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:04:18] Speaker D: I think he was in the same generation as Peter.
[00:04:21] Speaker F: Got it.
[00:04:22] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:04:22] Speaker D: Peter T. So then I think that was. My memory serves me correct.
I met a lot of the people who were taking the intensives, but I didn't know them all. They kind of came at a different time than Boone's monthly workshop and. Or my privates, et cetera.
So I worked with Boone and did a lot of creative things, I thought.
And I thought I felt I learned quite a bit. Then I think around 2005 or 6, he began to invite Daisaku Nomoto and Akio Kondo, his seniors in the training program with Kamiya, who was a Daijuan trainee and had one of the top nurseries in Japan, especially for black pine and others.
[00:05:24] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:05:25] Speaker D: Anyway. And Akio, as I recall, I trained nine years with him, total. Daisaku, seven years.
[00:05:32] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:05:33] Speaker D: And I gotta give Boone a lot of credit for having allowed them to come and work with us in Hayward or even Alameda.
I mean, they are stars in Japan.
So I worked almost as many privates with those two guys as I did with Boom.
Which is about more or less one a month. So it's maybe 12. Maybe 12 times a year with Boone. 12 times a year with either Daisaku or Akio.
Anyway, I befriended Peter T.
Before he went to Japan. He was even doing some work with me before he went to Japan. And then of course, went to Japan for three years, came back and I started working with him and Boone.
Then when Peter opened up his own nursery, I really enjoyed working with Peter. He moved to Auburn and then I moved. At the time, I had two hobbies which were kind of crazy for somebody who lived in a skyscraper in San Francisco with like a 30 by 5 foot balcony.
So I had. Which were bonsai and orchids. So they were all boarded out. The bonsai were boarded with Boone. Later I switched to Peter and boarded them with Peter. Then the orchids were boarded in Menlo. Park.
[00:07:07] Speaker F: Oh okay.
[00:07:08] Speaker D: Place called Brookside. Orcas. Great place.
[00:07:11] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:07:11] Speaker D: And then.
[00:07:14] Speaker F: Are you more into bonsai or orchids?
[00:07:17] Speaker D: I would say bonsai. Bonsai, Yeah. I figured I've been in bonsai 20 some odd years now almost orchids about 10 years. Orchids are a whole different beast. Collect. Yeah a whole different beast in the sense of it's a growing maintenance sprain. I mean there's a lot of that in bonsai too of course but the styling thing is non existent almost.
It's get them healthy, lots of flowers, beautiful flowers. And the exotic thing in the orchid world is hybridizing, you know, crossing two.
[00:07:56] Speaker F: Types so people always chasing after the new variety.
[00:07:59] Speaker D: That's right. I would assume that's right. So But I enjoy them both a little different.
So then probably from about 2000. Well first time I went to Japan I went with the Bill Volvanus tour.
[00:08:18] Speaker F: Awesome.
[00:08:19] Speaker D: And was blown away by Kokufu, the green club and of course the culture and natural beauty of Japan.
And then I started going with Boone. So I probably went to Kokufu maybe eight or nine times. Like three or four years in a row often maybe it'd skip a year once in a while. Kind of stopped in 2010. My wife used to go with me but she kind of bonsaied out. Yeah, let's stop going.
You know, kind of reprimand me about buying too many pots, stands, etc.
[00:09:03] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:09:03] Speaker D: So how many of those do you need? Oh this one's just needed for this. I need it for that. You never know when I need, you know, you know the drill.
[00:09:13] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:09:13] Speaker D: So.
So I went many times but then I also went a number of times just for non boxing. One time for Suaseki. Oh with a good buddy guy named Sam Edge. Quite a knowledgeable guy here in the United States. Yeah a real star.
[00:09:30] Speaker F: Used to read his website.
[00:09:32] Speaker D: Yeah these are writes really well. Very smart guy.
[00:09:38] Speaker F: Is he still in it?
[00:09:39] Speaker D: He's not in bonsai. He was the guy actually got me to join up with Boom. Yeah in the early days and then. But he's switched over to suicide.
[00:09:49] Speaker E: Got it.
[00:09:49] Speaker D: And I actually own a couple of his trees that he bought. Ah etc. Anyway, so I haven't been in a while but I plan to go probably for the two for the 100 year show.
I think Peter's going to lead a group of folks and I think that'll be kind of fun.
[00:10:12] Speaker F: It be nice to go back 100th year show.
[00:10:15] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:10:15] Speaker F: Probably go all out for that one.
[00:10:17] Speaker D: Yeah I would think it'll be A big deal, but mostly a lot of ceremonial stuff that I might be less interested in. But the tree people, the professionals in Japan will hold out their best trees.
[00:10:30] Speaker F: Absolutely.
[00:10:30] Speaker D: Probably this coming year for the. For the following year.
[00:10:33] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:10:33] Speaker D: So they'll be pretty impressive.
[00:10:35] Speaker F: That's great.
[00:10:36] Speaker D: Yeah, that's great.
[00:10:40] Speaker F: Awesome.
[00:10:40] Speaker D: Yeah. Trying to think if there's anything else with your audience might be interested in.
[00:10:45] Speaker F: What's your. What was your occupation?
[00:10:49] Speaker D: I'm a. What they call a GYN oncologist. So it's women's cancer.
I started Medical School in 1972 and did some training at Baltimore and then Los Angeles. Then moved to San Francisco in 1982. Lived in San Francisco for 41 or 2 years.
Practiced in San Francisco and in Berkeley, a few other places around the Bay Area.
[00:11:20] Speaker F: Nice.
[00:11:21] Speaker D: And then retired last year.
[00:11:23] Speaker F: Congratulations on the retirement.
[00:11:24] Speaker D: Thanks.
We have a son in Utah. I visited a couple times a year and also skied there a lot when I was younger.
And so I built a house and moved there.
[00:11:38] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:11:40] Speaker D: About a year ago. And I took about half of my trees with me. I have about 100 trees. I would say took about 50 of them to Utah.
Generally the ones aren't as good as ones I left at Peters, but there's a few trees there that are pretty good. I'm gonna bring them back to show or whatever.
[00:12:03] Speaker F: Did you build a bonsai garden at your place in Utah?
[00:12:06] Speaker D: I did. I sort of modeled it after most bonsai people do.
Sort of practical. So long benches on some nicer bricks than.
[00:12:17] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:12:18] Speaker D: Than cinder blocks, but basically just wood benches when the weather's acceptable, which is about April ish to now.
[00:12:32] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:12:33] Speaker D: And then I have a greenhouse that I built for the trees in the winter.
I try to keep the greenhouse about 35 degrees in the winter.
And then the orchids have their own greenhouse right next to it.
And then I did a lot of landscaping at my new place.
No grass all either. Hardscape and a lot of trees.
Very sort of Japanese, maybe Chinese style.
[00:13:02] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:13:03] Speaker F: Fantastic.
[00:13:05] Speaker D: So I feel pretty fortunate.
Had a good career.
Had a great run in bonsai.
Enjoy my orchids. Like being retired.
[00:13:15] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:13:16] Speaker D: I like to travel. Go into 10 days. I'm going to China.
[00:13:21] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:13:22] Speaker D: For another trip.
[00:13:24] Speaker F: And so Peter comes and works with you up in Utah and you come down here sometimes.
[00:13:29] Speaker D: Yeah. So we've coerced him. But not very hard to come to Utah.
I think about three times a year. It's now going to increase to four times a year.
And he knew some people, other people in Utah, some Bonsai enthusiasts, several of whom are here.
[00:13:48] Speaker F: Okay.
[00:13:50] Speaker D: And who have nice collections but needs a lot of help and. But have potential. Definite show trees and maybe even some winners.
And so he comes out there, works with me two, three days, works with each of them, either two or one day, like four or five of them.
And we have a great time.
[00:14:14] Speaker F: Awesome.
[00:14:14] Speaker D: It's kind of a nice small community up there.
[00:14:17] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:14:17] Speaker F: Are you in the Utah Club?
[00:14:19] Speaker D: I am. I joined the Utah Club.
The same five people or four people are working hard to improve it. You know, it'll never be anything like this, but, you know, for a local club, it's just fine.
[00:14:34] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:14:35] Speaker F: Fantastic.
[00:14:36] Speaker D: And then I go to Peter's not four times a year for anywhere from three to 14 days.
And. Yeah, those marathons in the summers. Yeah.
And sometimes in the spring, working on deciduous stuff, etc. You know, each season, of course, has its own trees that need help.
And I do that about four times a year.
[00:15:05] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:15:06] Speaker D: So it works out really well. It's a lot of fun.
You might edit this weed. I like to smoke cigars and drink some whiskey after a hard day of working.
[00:15:16] Speaker F: Love it. You know, Peter likes to have fun.
[00:15:20] Speaker D: Yeah, he likes. He's pretty serious when he's working, which absolutely one of the things I love about him. He's very professional, Extremely professional.
[00:15:28] Speaker F: I appreciate.
[00:15:28] Speaker D: He didn't used to even answer his. His phone, his texts till after he's done lunchtime or maybe, you know, after he's working.
He also is a natural. One of the things I used to teach my young doctors in training was surgery. In bonsai are one of the few endeavors where you do not need to look at somebody in the eyes when you're talking to them. So in surgery, just keep working and talking.
[00:15:56] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:15:57] Speaker D: In bonsai, for a professional, you don't want them to look at you. You want him to keep working and talking.
[00:16:03] Speaker F: I've never thought about that.
[00:16:04] Speaker D: Next time you work with Peter, notice he will hardly look at you.
[00:16:09] Speaker F: That's great.
[00:16:09] Speaker D: Yeah. And I thought to myself, this is the way to do it. Of course, you know, you're trying to get your money's worth, so to speak. You know, have him work hard. He's also phenomenally fast. He's a good value.
[00:16:23] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:16:23] Speaker D: But of course, I love them. I mean, really well, you know, work is extremely clean.
[00:16:32] Speaker F: And I think we really see evidence here.
[00:16:35] Speaker D: Yeah. I have to be honest with you. I am. My taste in bonsai are very much daijuan style and old school Daijuan style. No, it's Very crisp, clean, tight foliage.
Hopefully on good trees. And Accio and Daisaku were phenomenal.
And even when I walk around.
[00:17:01] Speaker F: What's up, Jonas?
[00:17:06] Speaker D: Yes, that's right.
So then.
And even when you walk around Coqueville, you can pick out Accio's trees.
[00:17:15] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:17:17] Speaker D: Or in this case, like Daisaku. I was walking through here at our own show and said, oh, Daisaku worked on that black pine. No question about it. Nobody else does work like that. Peter can do work like that.
But anyway, so that's. I like that style for me personally, and it's not very modern. It's not the American style.
You know, kind of what that is evolving into or has evolved.
I. I don't appreciate it as much generally.
I kind of like that crisp, clean look.
[00:17:54] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:17:55] Speaker F: Technical and classic.
[00:17:57] Speaker D: Yeah. And I would say, must be enough exhibitors here liked it because my trees did do pretty well. They.
[00:18:05] Speaker F: They did all right.
[00:18:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:18:08] Speaker F: Would you tell me a little bit about your individual trees? That one maybe starting with your. Oh, whichever one you've wanted.
[00:18:16] Speaker D: Well, let's start with the Maple on a Rock. It's in the extra large category. I bought it about 12 or 14 years ago from Morton, well, Haven. It was one of his trees.
It's. I thought it had a lot of potential. I kind of liked it. It was a. I got it for a good price and I thought, well, it just needs a lot of secondary and tertiary branches and it could be very cool. It was different. I like the fact that it was built here in the United States. I'm the. I think I'm the third owner. It was put together by one of the Japanese American masters.
[00:18:55] Speaker F: Okay.
[00:18:56] Speaker D: Locally here. I think he put two trees on it. I think Boone and Morton Air layered off one of the branches or something and then put the third and put it on as a third tree. And then all the things. The whole thing fused.
Kind of cool. The rock is not particularly good, but it seems to work. And it has a lot of moss on it and so on. So it looks. It's okay. And so I've been.
Peter and I have been developing it. Gotten pretty Twiggy. And there's a kind of a different. And I think generally well liked by most folks.
[00:19:35] Speaker F: How long have you been training it now under Peter?
[00:19:38] Speaker D: Since he moved here. I think it's now about 10 or 12 years. It's changed immensely.
It went from not too good, but good trunk or space structure to fairly impressive. I mean, Japanese maples take another 20 years before it's. You Know, kokufu, Not kokufu tree, but coco food branches, you know, so I'm pretty pleased that one.
[00:20:07] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:20:08] Speaker D: It's one of the trees Peter wants to buy for me at some point.
[00:20:11] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:20:12] Speaker F: It's cool that it's American made.
[00:20:15] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:20:15] Speaker F: I respect it very much.
[00:20:17] Speaker D: Yeah, me too. I thought that was kind of cool. I mean, I have a bunch of imported trees, like many of us.
[00:20:23] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:20:23] Speaker D: Of course, many of the better trees are imported, and that's just the way it is. And I certainly appreciate all the collective stuff that's going on. That's really cool. But it takes time to develop. Bonsai as you know, is not an overnight hobby or art form.
[00:20:41] Speaker F: What's up, Adam?
[00:20:44] Speaker D: Takes quite a while. So you, you know, for people, you buy a great trunk and it takes a lot longer than you think before it's show ready. But even a conifer or a deciduous, and deciduous particularly, takes a long time.
[00:21:01] Speaker F: Yeah, I guess one thing I appreciate about Peter is he's always pushing his. His clients to take the long road. And by that I mean, hey, with the juniper, let's make it the best that we can do and actually graft it with a better foliage type. Let's restart this tree.
[00:21:20] Speaker D: Yeah. One of the Peter's principles, if you will, that I think is great, is no instant bone suck. In other words, I can make it look pretty, we can make it look pretty, but it won't be pretty for long, and it won't be good in 10 or 20 years. It'll be too leggy, too blah, blah, blah. So I like the fact that he says, you know, let's go for the long haul. We'll go for hitting home runs rather than, like, get a first base today, you know? And I think that you're right. I think his philosophy is terrific.
[00:21:57] Speaker F: Good to see you.
[00:21:58] Speaker D: How you doing? Nice to see you, man.
[00:21:59] Speaker F: Sorry to interrupt you. Oh, no, you could.
Great to see you.
[00:22:06] Speaker D: And so that I really appreciate about Peter. I recognized it right away from working with Akio and Daisaku.
Peter, in my mind, is really good with the conifers, but he's really great with the deciduous stuff. I think it shows in my two trees that were here. I have a Korean hornbeam in was another tree.
[00:22:31] Speaker F: I love that Korean horn beam.
[00:22:32] Speaker D: That Korean horn beam I got from Boone actually might have been one of my first trees I bought from him in 2004, maybe if I had to twist his arm a little bit.
It was always more ramified than most deciduous in that era.
I developed the future Structure with Daisaku and subsequently Peter to especially Peter in the last 10 years to its current form. But Daisaku made a lot of good suggestions. Lengthening this branch, shortening this branch, that sort of thing. And people like it. I mean it's pretty twiggy. Trunk is collected. It's a collected tree.
Probably from Korea I would guess.
Although I don't know.
[00:23:25] Speaker F: But you think it was Yamadori or.
[00:23:27] Speaker D: I think so.
[00:23:28] Speaker F: Awesome.
[00:23:30] Speaker D: That's what people have told me. People that I. You know, the pros.
[00:23:35] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:23:36] Speaker D: So I have no reason to doubt them.
It's pretty old tree in the sense of the bark is old for green horn bean.
And it was. The structure was developed fairly well. I'll be honest. If I. If I were 30 years old, I might take a different tact, but it would be such a long process. Yeah.
Branch American deciduous trees.
Typically the branches run long to thicken them up and then they're not cut back far enough.
So then they're kind of always a little bit leggy or they have a branch that comes out a single branch within the secondary branches on either side.
And rather than the 2 to 4 to 8 to exponential branching. That said, at least in my experience, I've never seen exponential branching work that well.
It goes from two to three to then maybe five, then to six. You know, it's not like you get everything as you wish as you know.
[00:24:52] Speaker F: But anyway, it's a small leaf variety.
[00:24:56] Speaker D: Yes. I've been told. It's not clear to me whether it's a small leaf variety or the fact that there's so many branches that it becomes small leaf. And it seems like it's even gotten smaller.
Turns great color in this fall. Like it in the spring when the leaves first come out.
It's a more or less a once a year tree. I like that. Yeah. You know, repotted every three or four years.
Incredible.
[00:25:25] Speaker F: I put it in one of my best of show picks for the awards.
[00:25:30] Speaker D: Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's seems to be popular with bones in the bonsai world.
[00:25:38] Speaker F: Definitely.
[00:25:39] Speaker D: Yeah. And my last or my third display is a juniper and a cork bark.
[00:25:55] Speaker F: Elm.
[00:25:55] Speaker D: Elm.
I was thinking pine, but yeah, that's not a pine.
[00:25:59] Speaker F: So Pork bark elm.
[00:26:01] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:26:02] Speaker F: Is. Do you know a specific variety name or just called pork bark elm? I'm not sure either.
[00:26:07] Speaker D: I don't know. I'm sure there is, but I don't know it.
[00:26:10] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:26:10] Speaker D: That tree was an I air layered that early in my career had a trunk that was probably 3 inches in diameter.
[00:26:19] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:26:19] Speaker D: The tree was probably 14 inches tall. The bottom was not too interesting.
[00:26:26] Speaker F: How long ago would do you think you air layered that?
[00:26:29] Speaker D: Maybe 2004, maybe 5.
[00:26:32] Speaker F: Wow.
[00:26:33] Speaker D: The air layer took. Chopped it off. It was a shohin.
[00:26:37] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:40] Speaker D: Was is the key word there. The trunk is now maybe three times as big or two times as big for sure. I don't know. Yeah, I should measure. Maybe it might be 8 inches across. Not the clock at the base. And then the top has just been, you know, standard elm work.
[00:26:59] Speaker F: So you think shohin don't stay shin forever, right?
[00:27:02] Speaker D: Yeah. Much to my disappointment. And you know, I really. If can you believe it after so many years, I just learned it maybe about four to five years ago.
[00:27:12] Speaker F: Okay.
[00:27:13] Speaker D: When it all of my. Which I thought really good, either juniper or black pine shohin were no longer shohin.
[00:27:22] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:27:23] Speaker D: It completely blew me away and I was mildly upset. So now they're all kifu and I gotta kind of start over again. And it turns out that it's like a secret or something here in the United States. Yeah, you really have to work hard to keep them a shohin, especially if they're pretty good or big to begin with. You know, if they're five inches you got some leeway. But if they're pushing that eight limit. And in fact Akio and both Daisaku said when you go to Japan, those shohin aren't American shohin. They are 9, 10 inches. So they're big and they're big.
[00:28:05] Speaker F: So there's a blurry line between shohin and kifu.
[00:28:08] Speaker D: Yeah, I think so. In fact, I'm going to try to. I may sponsor next show here a kifu division because I think a lot of people have trees that size.
Some people collect big trees, but older folks are into the little bit smaller.
I'd also like to sponsor a deciduous or and or broadleaf medium sized tree. I think they all deserve a shot at it.
[00:28:40] Speaker E: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:41] Speaker D: Because I think a lot of people have those kind of trees. Absolutely. I mean the big trees are definitely cool, but most people, if you look at who's in bonsai, there's a handful of young people with great futures, but there's also a lot of old farts. You can, you can, you can edit that if you so desire. Anyway. And they tend to like the smaller trees and they're getting rid of their bigger trees, you know, especially if you're taking care of them yourself, they're kind of hard to move around.
[00:29:15] Speaker F: So I think it'd be great if someone built A kifu size box display.
[00:29:22] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:29:22] Speaker F: Do you like that idea?
[00:29:23] Speaker D: I like the concept, yeah. Yeah. We'll see if they'd go for that. It might be hard to find a stand, but you know, some of these stands can hold bigger trees.
[00:29:30] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:31] Speaker D: To be honest with you, maybe not these ones that come directly from Japan, but some of them that have been made here in the United States.
[00:29:39] Speaker F: Absolutely.
[00:29:40] Speaker D: So anyway, the, my other tree is a.
I think it was Rocky Mountain juniper that was grafted with Shimpaku probably 2006 or seven, something like that. I worked on that tree a lot with Daisaku and Akio and then now Peter for the last 10 or 15 years or 10 years. And I'm pretty pleased with it. I call it the Elk because when it was kind of more naked, if you will, you know, it had all these sort of antler like things in the back. I'm sort of sacrilegious. I tend to name my trees so people know who I'm talking about.
[00:30:20] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:30:21] Speaker D: Especially even like myself and Peter. Oh, it's that juniper that does this, you know, so I give them names like, you know, so I, you know, in Japan it would shoot me. But this is the United States and they're not. Can't reach that far. Yeah, I think so. They've kind of find them in jokes. Almost all my trees have a name.
[00:30:41] Speaker F: Yeah, informal names are great. I name my trees too.
[00:30:44] Speaker D: Oh, do you? Good. Yeah, I think it's kind of fun.
You know, I bought a tree, a juniper recently from one of my good buddies in Utah, Connor Jensen. And he.
I call it my traffic cone tree.
[00:31:00] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:31:01] Speaker D: Because it has a large cone like root base built, I'm thinking on muck or maybe there's a stone in there, I don't even know. And then it's this wild and crazy juniper.
[00:31:14] Speaker F: That's great.
[00:31:14] Speaker D: So that's the most recent one I named.
[00:31:17] Speaker F: It's quite practical to name them too for quick reference.
[00:31:19] Speaker D: Oh, quick reference. Right. I have one called the Horny Tree. I have one called my Best Western. It was a western juniper. It was the best of the three or four at the time I called Best Western.
[00:31:32] Speaker F: So your, your Best Western. Not to get too sidetracked, but you both root grafted and foliage grafted that tree, right?
[00:31:40] Speaker D: Yes. That's.
[00:31:41] Speaker F: That's awesome.
[00:31:42] Speaker D: So I showed it at a Bibib show about 2009 and Accio told me, said, you know, you really want to make this a great tree, like could get in kokufu in the medium category once you're airlayer right here.
So I said, okay, I'll go for it.
I was still young.
[00:32:00] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:32:01] Speaker F: What year?
[00:32:03] Speaker D: Probably 2000.
Right after the show. Nine or ten.
[00:32:07] Speaker F: Nine or ten. Okay.
[00:32:10] Speaker D: And then it was a Sierra.
And I became a disciple of Peter's philosophy of graft. Almost all native junipers. Junipers.
That said, there are a few that I still like. I have a little bit of sentimental attachment to the occasional great California juniper that has tight foliage size appropriate for the size of the tree. I think Sierras are very pretty when they're tight and whatever. They all need a lot of wiring. Nothing compared to, like, Utah or maybe Rocky Mountain junipers, which have good trunks but not such good foliage generally.
[00:33:01] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:33:01] Speaker D: At least not here in California.
And so I become a disciple of grafting. I've had a lot of grafted trees, but now I'm even grafting some of the ones that I didn't think I was going to graft.
[00:33:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:16] Speaker F: Yeah, gotcha.
[00:33:19] Speaker D: So I'm fortunate enough to have a sizable collection that I can. I like to have one or two trees come online every year, so to speak. And so I'm, even at my old age, okay with taking the long road, you know? Okay. So it'll be eight years, you know, for most. Most junipers need about three, four stylings from grafted to completely grafted before you could good enough to put in a good show.
And I'm okay with that. Deciduous trees, Turns out they are a much bigger haul, for sure. I have a lot of. I have a bunch of Japanese maples, trident maples, many of which are becoming pretty good. But I can see. But it's 10 years more or less so far, so. And I know when I see them in Japan, it's like, okay, this is 20 or 30 years, which I won't be able to see, but maybe my good friends in the bonsai world will hopefully pick up those trees when I'm looking down from above, maybe.
[00:34:34] Speaker F: Ah.
So, Jeff, you have just an absolutely phenomenal collection.
[00:34:42] Speaker D: Oh, thank you very much.
[00:34:43] Speaker F: And I think that we have a giant proof of it from. Hey, how's it going, man? Nice to see you.
Sorry.
Proof of it from winning your six PBE awards.
[00:34:58] Speaker D: Yeah. Do you have fortunate?
[00:35:00] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:35:01] Speaker F: I'm curious. What do you think Attributes or why do you have such a nice collection? What are some of the factors?
[00:35:10] Speaker D: I think I was early in the game. I was buying up most a lot of imported trees or buying quality trees. I recognize pretty early on that don't get carried away with one of everything, although I might have close to that.
But buy quality trees.
Because I saw what was happening to other people who had 300 trees and were weeding and watering and fertilizing, doing a little bit of styling.
So I bought better trees. I was fortunate enough to be able to afford it and to be in the game early on when they weren't quite as expensive, maybe even accounting for inflation.
And to be around when there were a lot of imported trees. So I took advantage of those imported trees, I'll be honest.
Black pines, junipers, whatever.
And then Accio would bring an occasional tree. You might have to edit that in his suitcases.
So I would buy them up. And they were generally smaller trees, but there were some small, large trees that would sometimes come out of his suitcase. I was pretty aggressive buying that sort of thing. And I bought a lot of pots in Japan at the Green Club, because as American, you couldn't buy any trees, really legally.
Bought pots and stands, put together a nice collection.
I really, really liked the antique Chinese pots.
I just couldn't get over the shape and the patina and the fact that all the Imaki pots and other Tokonoma pots were imitations of those older Chinese pots that came into. They were imported in Japan in the late 1800s, early 1900s.
And also a little bit of my Asian bias. Yeah, my wife's Chinese. So nice.
So I really appreciate their look, and I still do, and.
But I think it's been a good career. It's been a lot of fun. I met a lot of great people in the bonsai world.
Mostly really good people. Even when it's competitive, it's all kind of up and up.
To be honest, I'm not that crazy about the competition.
I mean, it might sound kind of hokey, but I'd be thrilled.
In any show, no competition, just my friends and the people that I respect come up to me and say, boy, I really love your tree. It's great. That is the thrilling part. Do I.
Maybe I'm being an arrogant jerk, but, you know, do I need a little thing that said I want all this or that I get a big kick when especially the professionals come up and say.
Or even the. The. What's the word? More experienced, you know, other students of the hobby come up and say they really like my trees and so on.
[00:38:32] Speaker E: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:38:34] Speaker D: So I feel very blessed to have worked with a whole bunch of really good professionals. I was fortunate enough to, like, just spend the money on it.
It's not a cheap hobby as we know it at A fish at a really good level.
Combination of just the, you know, the basic stuff, the tools in the soil and the fertilizing and maybe ro. Water, depending where you live. And then all the stands and pots, accent things.
And then, of course, the trees.
And then I really appreciate when people take the long haul on the tree. When I see a good tree and then they know what to do with it. And as time goes on, more and more people are knowing how to develop a tree properly and it shows off.
[00:39:30] Speaker F: Fantastic.
[00:39:31] Speaker D: Cool.
[00:39:33] Speaker F: Awesome. And we can. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I guess I had one more question if that's.
[00:39:39] Speaker D: Yeah, no problem.
Most of the people I know walk by here sooner or later anyway.
[00:39:46] Speaker F: Any. Any goals that you have with bonsai or anything you want to see in the next, you know, short term, long term.
[00:39:54] Speaker D: I'd like to see especially Peter's students.
I know how good Peter is and I know a lot of his students have the kind of crazy passion that I have to see their trees come online.
Will be.
That would make me really happy.
[00:40:15] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:40:15] Speaker D: And then I sort of look at maybe, maybe a Japanese phenomenon where it's Peter's clan, so to speak, versus everybody else. But that said, it'd be great to see bonsai compete with Europe or maybe some decades, maybe even Japan to some degree.
So that would be my. That's sort of my goal.
[00:40:42] Speaker F: Very nice. Love it.
[00:40:44] Speaker D: I would say maybe ridiculously, I'm still buying trees.
I'm almost 74 years old. Granted, most of these trees aren't 30 years away.
Most of them are maybe five years away.
And I'm totally cool with that because I have other trees waiting in line to be submitted for the show.
So I still enjoy it a lot and I get excited by seeing good raw material about, wow. Oh, that's kind of cool. Or different or something I don't have or some style that appeals to me in general. I would say I have. Although I have a bunch of cookie cutter bonsai, I have a whole bunch of weirdos and I tend to like the weirdos.
The cookie cutters are cool, but the weirdos are more endearing or something.
Love it.
[00:41:51] Speaker F: Fantastic.
[00:41:52] Speaker D: Thank you much.
[00:41:53] Speaker F: Awesome. Well, hey, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it.
[00:41:57] Speaker D: My pleasure.
[00:41:58] Speaker F: And congratulations again on your awards. Well, well deserved. The trees were phenomenal.
Absolutely. Love.
[00:42:06] Speaker D: Well, thank you. Thank you, Jeremiah. Thanks for taking time out or even have an interest in hear my short story.
[00:42:14] Speaker F: Oh, most definitely appreciate talking to you.
[00:42:17] Speaker D: Thank you. You're welcome.
[00:42:21] Speaker F: What's up, Sam? How are you doing, man?
[00:42:23] Speaker C: Hey, man. Doing well.
[00:42:24] Speaker D: How are you?
[00:42:24] Speaker F: It's great to see you. Yeah. Well, I'm super impressed with your work and like, how quickly you have progressed within bonsai, so.
[00:42:33] Speaker C: Oh, thank you.
[00:42:34] Speaker D: Appreciate it.
[00:42:35] Speaker F: Tell me very briefly about how you got into bonsai and how long you've been into bonsai now.
[00:42:42] Speaker C: I started about 2017, I think. An ex co worker, he was, he had dabbled in bonsai before and I was like doing succulent arrangements at the time to decorate my house. And yes, we wanted to put cooler things in pots. And I, like, I saw seen pictures of bonsai and this guy's like piquing my interest, right? He's like, oh, yeah, you want to do like that in that picture. There's this technique, there's this other technique. And I'm like, oh, crazy. I was like rocket science. And then one day I went over to Groveway Nursery in Hayward, picked up a kishu there. And I think I was talking to Howard, who was helping out at the nursery at times, like, what I. What I do, like, when did I prune it? Like, did I put a new pot? And then we talked for like an hour.
[00:43:19] Speaker D: Right.
[00:43:20] Speaker C: Clearly this is like a super deep hobby.
Tons of levels to that game. And I got super intrigued and went down the rabbit hole pretty much.
That's it.
[00:43:29] Speaker F: Very, very cool. And are you part of any clubs these days?
[00:43:33] Speaker C: I am a member of the Bonsai Society of San Francisco. Have been for quite a while. They got me started. Lovely club. I was the president for a few years. I was on the board for years. I'm just a member now.
And I also recently joined the Bay Area. Bay Area Bonsai Associates Baba Club. So I'm also like being involved in that club.
[00:43:54] Speaker F: That's awesome. That's awesome.
[00:43:56] Speaker D: Cool.
[00:43:56] Speaker F: So we are standing in front of your year at Juniper right now, and I was hoping you could tell me a little bit about it.
[00:44:04] Speaker C: Yeah, let's see. I think I acquired this tree in 2018, I think it was. I bought it from Jonas, who had bought it from a collection of a lady who was kind of getting out of bonsai, I believe. According to Eric, who had maintained the tree before the lady's. A grandfather or father had collected it maybe in like the 50s or 60s. And so the tree has been bonsai for quite a while, which is cool, you know, and, you know, it's a very elegant long Sierra juniper with pretty tight foliage. When I got it, I thought it was pretty unique. It was restyled in 2018. Actually back then when I was less experienced, Peter helped me set the structure, you know, choose the front and choose the front of this tree and set like the rough structure. And this tree has kind of grown. Grown with me and grown with my like experienced over time. Wanted to create kind of this tree isn't exactly Boonjun, but it's very feminine and elegant and I wanted to create like a tree with really interesting, tight, compact pads. Bring out the elegance, show off the foliage, keep it native. Because I do like kind of the show, the provenance of the tree and its foliage and so I'm pretty happy for it is now again you don't see too many Sea Urge Universe like.
[00:45:18] Speaker F: This, which is cool. It is unique for Sierra juniper. Oh, you would know well to have such a elegant, graceful line to it and be such a slender trunk and it's beautiful, man. You did a fantastic job on it. I'm very, very impressed. Thanks, Greg.
[00:45:36] Speaker C: Also, also was experimenting with, you know, very small pads in this tree because it's a small and slender tree and kind of wanted to see with a naturally coarse foliage like zero juniper, you know, how small could I achieve a small pad? You know, you haven't really seen that before. And it's coming along. I mean there's still wire on it, but I think it's going to get better over the next few years.
[00:45:55] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:45:56] Speaker C: And then lastly the display. I guess I was, I was kind of enamored by the stone when I saw it in Japan. Like I wanted to do a display where it was playing off the convention of in kind of Bunjin style displays of having like a, like a monk figurine or something looking up at the tree.
[00:46:11] Speaker F: Right.
[00:46:12] Speaker C: But the. I was thinking, well, it's both a mountain tree and so having a rock puts it, you know, gives it a sense of place. But also having a rock that kind of looks like a person looking up at the tree was kind of like a double meaning and kind of played off that convention a bit. So that was the goal here. Kind of a contemplative moment in the mountains with a kind of a artistic looking tree. Yeah. And I, I like it. Yeah, hope you do too.
[00:46:37] Speaker F: Absolutely, absolutely. It's very nice. That live vein sure is popping off that tree. It's like swelled up and looks muscly.
[00:46:45] Speaker D: Yeah, I like that very much.
[00:46:47] Speaker F: Oh, thank you, Peter. Julian and I were talking yesterday and we were saying might be cool if there was a like a bunin category for the show.
[00:46:57] Speaker C: Oh, cool.
[00:46:58] Speaker F: Because I feel like, it's tough for bunjin to compete with these other, you know, massive, big, thick trunk trees.
[00:47:05] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:47:06] Speaker F: But in its own category, it would be interesting to see, and I think there would be competition. And. I don't know. What are your thoughts?
[00:47:14] Speaker C: You know. You know, what's interesting is that I've taken classes with Michael Hagedorn before, and then I studied. Did some extensive study of Ryan, and both of them have told me. They're of the opinion that bunjin is, like, a very specific thing.
[00:47:27] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:47:28] Speaker C: Not every. Not every long, feminine or elegant tree is bunjin.
[00:47:31] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:47:31] Speaker C: It's a very kind of. There's a. There's a quirkiness to it. There's a thinness to it. There's an absolute lack of, like, kind of. Kind of the bari or anything that, like, makes a bunjin. I don't even think this is formally a bunjin.
[00:47:42] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:47:43] Speaker C: But over time, I've learned that many people think. Many people use the term bunjin kind of differently, even in Japan, you know?
[00:47:49] Speaker D: Totally.
[00:47:50] Speaker C: And so my first thought about the category would be that how, you know, who would. Who would define what's bunjin and what's not.
[00:47:56] Speaker F: Right. That's a great question. Right.
[00:47:57] Speaker C: Because I have.
[00:47:59] Speaker F: I do not have the answer, but I.
[00:48:00] Speaker C: But I do get the sentiment of, like, these long, kind of, like, not strong trees that are a bit more feminine and artistic and feeling, you know, like, those don't win shows, but they're kind of their own thing, Right?
[00:48:12] Speaker F: Yes.
[00:48:13] Speaker C: So I'm super down. That's a thought. And I'm curious at what conventions or standards we would end up agreeing on.
[00:48:21] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:48:22] Speaker F: I've also heard the term bunjin shoot fu. Maybe I forget. I'm totally butchering it. I'm doing a horrible job right now. But it. I think it was.
I should ask someone that, actually, in the bonsai community that speaks Japanese, but it was like a basically bunjin feel.
[00:48:42] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:48:43] Speaker F: But maybe not necessarily classified as bunjin.
[00:48:46] Speaker C: Sure. Or there's, like. Maybe there's good bunjin. There's, like, bunjin, and then there's, like, what makes a good bunjin. And so maybe there's, like, a more broader category. These things are bunjin. But the really good ones.
[00:48:56] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:48:56] Speaker D: They're more quirky.
[00:48:57] Speaker C: And so to me, this tree has.
[00:49:01] Speaker F: A bunjin feel to it. Maybe not necessarily actually bunjin. Why do you say it's not bunjin? I'm curious.
[00:49:08] Speaker C: Two things. One, it has a base that has some kind of power to it. It's not completely whimsical. Right. It has some dead wood. Like, it has a flare to it. Right. That gives it a bit of strength. The other part of it is that it's not quite that whimsical. It's a very kind of formally arranged, like, canopy to it. Right. Like, I think.
I think a true bunjin kind of has, like, a wispiness to it, like a bit of a looseness to its styling and its foliage and its feeling. This tree is very, I think, as Michael put it in one of his blog posts, it's a bit too polite, you know, a bit too formal, a bit too polite, a bit too controlled. And so that's kind of in my character. It's kind of the style I wanted to achieve, but I know it's not truly that kind of droopy, whimsical, free form bunjin.
[00:49:54] Speaker F: Hello.
Awesome.
[00:49:56] Speaker C: That's just my opinion.
[00:49:57] Speaker F: Fantastic.
[00:49:58] Speaker C: Of course it is. And we're talking about it right now on a podcast.
Right now we're at the event, so people are walking by.
[00:50:08] Speaker F: Well, you did a fantastic job with it. Love the display, Love the stone.
Congratulations.
[00:50:15] Speaker C: Oh, thank you.
[00:50:15] Speaker D: Appreciate it.
[00:50:16] Speaker F: Fantastic job. So thank you so much.
[00:50:18] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:50:19] Speaker F: Anything else? Any, like, any other thoughts on the show itself?
[00:50:24] Speaker C: Show's great. I think the trees got even better this year. I was just telling Eric that I feel like, because the broadleaf and deciduous this year were so much better, it's not like the conifers got worse. It's just that the other categories of trees got so much better that it feels like a very balanced show in terms of quality of trees. Right. And so that. That's quite. You know, that. That's. That's really nice to see. Really inspiring. You know, kind of makes me want to dabble more into kind of deciduous and broadleaf, which I don't haven't done that much of. So I love it. And obviously, it's all about the community, all the people being here. Again, amazing.
[00:51:00] Speaker F: Fantastic. Tell me just a little bit about your new bonsai garden, if you wouldn't mind. And I want to be respectful of your time, so if you want to.
[00:51:09] Speaker C: Oh, no worries.
[00:51:10] Speaker F: No problem at all.
[00:51:11] Speaker C: No, no, no. Well, I renovated my house. It is in San Francisco. And, you know, I put a bonsai garden in my backyard. You know, it's not a. It's not a business or formal garden. You know, it's not a.
Yeah, it's a garden. It's a garden. It's a backyard garden. I just met fully set it up. I'm really liking it. It's kind of a. It's kind of a garden that has a kind of a contemporary, modern spin on it. So it looks a bit different than I think most bonsai gardens.
It's nice. I like it. And if people are interested and are around the San Francisco area and want to check out the garden and the trees, like, feel free to contact me on Instagram. I'm Amtan Bonsai, S A M T A N Bonsai. And send me a message, you know, happy to show people around.
[00:51:56] Speaker F: Awesome, man.
I totally copied you. And I saw on one of your. I don't know if it was a post or a story, but I got one of those backdrops that you can basically pull down and then, like, it goes back up.
[00:52:11] Speaker C: Oh, for the photography setup. Really convenient.
[00:52:14] Speaker F: I saw you get one of those and I was like, that's a genius idea because it, like, takes up less space and still looks good. Keeps it clean when you roll it up.
[00:52:21] Speaker D: Oh, sure.
[00:52:22] Speaker F: And so I got one of those. So thank you very much for.
[00:52:25] Speaker C: And. And thanks to Eric Schrader, who I caught, who I copied that from my whole photo setup. He taught me his setup and I'm like, this works. Looks great. Happy to use it, if you don't mind. And he was. He was. He was very cool, but I think he wrote an article about it at some point, so.
[00:52:37] Speaker D: Awesome.
[00:52:37] Speaker C: And he also live in San Francisco, so I'm like, this is a compact setup that works. I'm going to do it too.
[00:52:43] Speaker F: Awesome.
[00:52:45] Speaker D: Sweet.
[00:52:45] Speaker F: Well, hey, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it. Congrats on your two trees.
[00:52:49] Speaker C: Of course. Thank. Thanks. Thank you. And congrats on your trees as well. And it's good to see you again.
[00:52:54] Speaker D: Appreciate it, man.
[00:52:58] Speaker F: Tell me who you are. What. What's your name? What's your Instagram?
[00:53:02] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. So my name is Mike. I guess my full name is Michael Moncasio. My Instagram handle is Aloha Bonsai. Yeah, that's. That's my information, I guess.
[00:53:13] Speaker F: And so you were telling me, how many trees do you have in your collection right now?
[00:53:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm close to 250, if I'm being honest. Yes.
[00:53:21] Speaker D: That is a lot of trees.
[00:53:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a lot of trees to manage.
[00:53:25] Speaker F: You're able to keep up with them?
[00:53:26] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I am, thankfully, with the position I'm in. Yes.
[00:53:30] Speaker D: Nice.
[00:53:31] Speaker F: And tell me about your occupation.
[00:53:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I'm a pet store owner. So we have a full line pet store. We sell all our animals. All the animals and supplies out here in Utah called animal arcoram. And, you know, it allows me to be a little more flexible with running home to water to maintain the collection if I need to. So that. Yeah. Thankful. Thankful for my career.
[00:53:56] Speaker F: Awesome.
So you moved from Hawaii to Utah.
[00:54:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:54:02] Speaker F: That's such a transition.
[00:54:03] Speaker B: Yes, it is.
[00:54:04] Speaker F: Like, what brought you out to Utah?
[00:54:07] Speaker B: You know, I think. I think part of it was, you know, trying to. Trying new experiences in, like, a new place. Part of it was I was dating a girl and it didn't work out. And, you know, I want to stick with it. I don't like giving up on things, and it worked out. You know, I met my. My wife now and have two kids and own my own business. So I'm thankful I didn't give up on it.
[00:54:28] Speaker D: That's awesome.
[00:54:29] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:54:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:31] Speaker F: Very cool.
[00:54:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:32] Speaker F: And so give me your background on bonsai briefly.
[00:54:36] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. So again, I moved up to Utah in 2010. I had no. No reason to do bonsai in Hawaii. I mean, we had a lot of tropical trees there. But coming to Utah, you know, seeing how outdoorsy things were going on hikes, I took a. Had a passion for, you know, the outdoors. That's. That's what Utah is really known for. And I visited, I guess Sacramento, since my wife's from Sacramento, got to visit a nursery, picked up a Procummins juniper. Obviously killed it, you know, keeping it indoors, kind of everyone's story. And I then went to my first club meeting and had a few tropical trees, your little s trees, you know, that you can buy anywhere else. And seeing members who have been doing it for decades, I quickly asked them, like, hey, how do I get my tree to look like that? And they said, you know, chop it here, stick it in the ground, wait five years, and we'll chat. I didn't like the answer, obviously. So I'm glad. I was proactive in wanting to meet more members and see their collection. So a few of. A few friends. Sam Miller was one of my friends who brought me to his garden.
[00:55:48] Speaker D: Oh, nice.
[00:55:48] Speaker B: Yeah, he does pottery, so he's well known in the pottery making American bonsai pots. But, yeah, I saw his collection. I was so impressed, and I sold all my trees and started my collection all over, you know, so. And I'm thankful again for. For what he's done for me with, you know, getting me past that stage where people kind of linger in and obviously collecting as well. He took me collecting, and I really enjoyed that.
[00:56:15] Speaker A: Oh, cool.
[00:56:17] Speaker F: How many trees would you say you've.
[00:56:18] Speaker B: Collected I have collected, I would say I probably collected at least 40, 50 trees successfully. Yes.
[00:56:26] Speaker F: Oh, nice.
[00:56:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:56:27] Speaker F: And are these in the Utah area?
[00:56:29] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:56:31] Speaker F: What varieties?
[00:56:32] Speaker B: Varieties. So Ponderosa, Rocky Mountain junipers, Utah junipers, Douglas firs. We're kind of spoiled. And then you go up to the high mountains, Engelmann spruce, subalpine firs. Once in a while you get lucky and you can find common junipers. So. Yeah, yeah, just about everything. Yeah, we're lucky. We're lucky. We have a great climate to grow everything in.
[00:56:57] Speaker F: I didn't know you were collected.
[00:56:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I do it.
[00:56:59] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:57:00] Speaker F: That's great.
[00:57:01] Speaker B: It's hard to do it with kids now, so that's one of those things.
[00:57:03] Speaker F: You know, I very much understand.
[00:57:06] Speaker D: And then.
[00:57:06] Speaker F: So you are the president of the Utah Bonsai Club, correct? It's called.
[00:57:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the Utah Bonsai Club. We're a really small club. I would say we're composed of.
I would say we probably have 40, 50 people who have actively paid their membership fees and we maybe have an average of 12 to 20 people show up to our club meetings that we have once a month. But it's growing, you know, we're trying to get the word out. We're trying to show better trees and get people more interested. Really?
[00:57:38] Speaker A: That's great.
[00:57:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:39] Speaker F: And so I understand more recently you've been working with Peter T. A little bit, correct?
[00:57:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:57:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:57:45] Speaker B: So I'm working with Peter T. I'm loving every bit of it. We successfully finished our first year of meeting, basically. I love, I love his, how he sets up days in the year that he's going to be coming out. So he hits, he hits basically spring, summer and the fall.
[00:58:06] Speaker F: Awesome.
[00:58:07] Speaker B: So I think because of how our climate is, he's gonna do like an earlier spring and then kind of a post hardened spring prune for deciduous trees and then obviously the summer and back in the fall.
[00:58:23] Speaker D: Nice.
[00:58:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. I 100% loved every bit of it. I learned so much.
[00:58:28] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:58:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I learned so much.
[00:58:30] Speaker F: So is, what are like some of the things that maybe Peter changed your mind about or just kind of like some new thoughts?
[00:58:37] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:58:37] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:58:38] Speaker B: I think, I think the biggest thing I took out of it was the instant bonsai versus building amazing bonsai long turkey. I think that's, that's the big part that opened up for me.
[00:58:52] Speaker D: Nice.
[00:58:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:58:54] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:58:54] Speaker F: I feel like some of these trees that are on display right now, the PvE you can really see.
[00:59:00] Speaker B: Oh yes.
[00:59:01] Speaker F: Examples of that. Like Stearns.
[00:59:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's take a look at that. Oh, I love that hornbeam.
[00:59:05] Speaker F: Me too.
[00:59:06] Speaker B: I love that hornbeam. It's. It's looking so, so good.
[00:59:10] Speaker F: Ah, just the refinement on this tree is absolutely incredible. So, Jeff Stearns, Hornbeam. Correct. In Utah as well, right?
[00:59:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I think, you know, like, again, Jeff has been working with Peter for a decade and plus some. And, you know, like, I'm. He's finally moved to Utah, and that gave Peter a little bit of initiative to take on more clients. And I'm really thankful again for being one of Peter's new students. And I'm on board for the 10 year. The 10 year Peter T. Course. Yeah.
[00:59:43] Speaker E: Awesome.
[00:59:45] Speaker F: Well, that's so cool.
[00:59:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:47] Speaker F: Any other thoughts come to mind in terms of just working with Peter and, like, the differences that you've seen?
[00:59:52] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, before working with Peter, like, seeing what my trees looked like and, you know, feeling fairly proud of how it looked and then understanding, like, hey, this, this won't work long term. You know, like, we have to make a few adjustments in terms of cutting back and growing, you know, branches and blowing them out. Now weakening the top so we can build the lower half. Because, you know, the top is the easiest part of the tree to build. I think. I think that's kind of the thing I'm most excited for is getting an early start in my bonsai career and not wishing, like, I maybe have Met Peter like, 10 years ago, you know, type of deal. Yeah, totally.
[01:00:36] Speaker F: So you mean.
[01:00:37] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:00:38] Speaker F: Often one technique that Peter does is he'll hold the top back.
[01:00:42] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:00:42] Speaker F: Because it's. Most trees are dominant in their apex and they're growing way stronger in the upper parts of the trees. And he'll allow the lower branches to elongate and get thicker, Generally speaking.
[01:00:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:00:57] Speaker F: And so he really keeps holding the top back while he's allowing the lower branches to extend and get thicker. And then he starts cutting back the lower branches.
[01:01:09] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:01:09] Speaker F: Which is really cool technique and something that I've been working on.
[01:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm seeing the work you're putting in your. You see it in your redwood that's being displayed. Love that tree. It's. It's in my top three that I'm seeing displayed.
[01:01:24] Speaker F: Awesome.
[01:01:25] Speaker B: Awesome.
[01:01:27] Speaker D: Yeah. So how.
[01:01:30] Speaker F: How has the club been going for you recently?
[01:01:33] Speaker B: Yeah, club's been going well. I took on the role of being the president in 2022, basically. I think I've added a few things. One being a winter silhouette show.
[01:01:47] Speaker D: Oh, sweet.
[01:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So we basically meet, you know, every every month. For the year, except November and December, just because of the holidays. But, like, I feel like in February, for us especially, we're in a. A state of everything is very dormant. There's nothing really to do. And, you know, so I decided to put on a little. Instead of it being just a club meet, we would present a little show. And it's just trying to show tree, maybe like deciduous trees in their leafless form and showing more structure especially. So getting more people to think about the bones of the tree and displaying that.
[01:02:22] Speaker F: That's awesome.
[01:02:23] Speaker D: Very cool.
[01:02:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:25] Speaker F: Have you been to Jeff Stern's house?
[01:02:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:02:28] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I love the house. He has an elevator in there, you know, so, like, I think that's the greatest part of his home. I hope to. When I get, you know, of that age, if I build my dream home like he has, I'm definitely putting an elevator in there.
Nice.
[01:02:44] Speaker F: Does he have, like, a bonsai display area?
[01:02:48] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say. I know his garden is not very large, but, you know, it's very high quality, very intimate. And I think the one thing he has that I wish I maybe can get in the future is he has a beautiful greenhouse that he can control. You know, it's very high tech. And he can literally roll his trees right in onto the benches and keep them in there and not do the fall shuffle, winter or spring shuffle. So he can basically keep them in there until ready to be brought back outside. So it's really tempered control. So, yeah, it's. It's awesome.
[01:03:26] Speaker F: That is so really cool.
[01:03:27] Speaker B: If you can visit there, I highly recommend it. Yeah.
[01:03:30] Speaker D: Nice.
[01:03:30] Speaker F: Nice. Sorry for in your way. No, it's Jeff Stern.
[01:03:34] Speaker B: Jeff Stern tree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Jeff Stern. Yeah.
[01:03:40] Speaker F: Beautiful, huh? Me too.
[01:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:43] Speaker F: I wanted to ask you maybe, like.
[01:03:45] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:03:45] Speaker F: Your overall thoughts on the show.
[01:03:47] Speaker D: Sure.
[01:03:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:48] Speaker F: Is this your first. First pbe?
[01:03:50] Speaker B: This is my second pbe. I was able to make it to the very first one. Yes. Years ago.
[01:03:55] Speaker D: Very cool.
[01:03:56] Speaker F: Yeah. What's your overall thoughts on the show?
[01:03:58] Speaker B: I think it's a higher quality show, if I'm being honest. Again, it's something to look forward to. The first year was already so amazing. I'm like, how do you up this? And seeing the level that everyone stepped in, all the exhibitors. I'm. I am.
[01:04:13] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:04:13] Speaker B: I am in bonsai heaven right now.
Yeah. And I love the new space. The vendor area is beautiful. There's a lot of room. I've. I've been told that there's probably going to be like a thousand plus People here on Saturday, so. Yeah, yeah, it should. It should hold well. It should do well, I think. And we finally got a food truck, I heard. Oh, yeah, we're gonna get some tacos out here.
[01:04:36] Speaker F: That is radio. Very cool, man.
[01:04:38] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:04:39] Speaker F: Awesome. Well, hey, I have really appreciated following along with you on your Instagram page.
[01:04:44] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:04:45] Speaker F: And watching all your trees develop.
[01:04:47] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:04:47] Speaker F: So many awesome trees.
[01:04:49] Speaker B: Thank you. Yes.
[01:04:49] Speaker D: Thank you so much for chatting.
[01:04:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you, Jeremiah.
[01:04:57] Speaker A: My name's John. My wife Michelle and I acquired Joshua Roth Tools a few years ago from the previous owner, Ken. Obviously, the brand's kind of recognized as the premier tool importer for the bonsai hobby. But, you know, we. The company also imports other things horticultural to pruners, saws, all that kind of gas. But yeah, the company's been around for 40 years. We were attracted to the business opportunity because we saw how involved the company already was in supporting various things like the new talent competition at various clubs and events. And then they're also very supportive of bci, the International Club. And that's something that I really enjoy. We were talking about that earlier. I belong to a few clubs and so that club culture is something I really enjoy and appreciate. And particularly with the bonsai hobby, I think it's so important to be plugged into a community and to learn from other people. So, anyway, this is. This is wonderful, you know, here at PBE 2024, being able to meet all the superstars like you, Jeremiah, and everybody else. So this is a treat for us because otherwise, as a hobbyist, it can be hard to go to some of these bigger shows. But the business has afforded us the opportunity to be involved and then support at the same time.
[01:06:15] Speaker F: Awesome. You guys also sponsored some of the awards last night?
[01:06:20] Speaker A: We did, we did, yeah. So this year we were very, very happy to support the broadleaf evergreen category as well as the shohin category. So, yeah, all the trees are fantastic, obviously this caliber show. But we're very happy and thankful for all of the exhibitors and our opportunity to support.
[01:06:44] Speaker D: Fantastic.
[01:06:46] Speaker F: And thank you so much for supporting this show. I really, really appreciate it. I think we all appreciate it.
[01:06:53] Speaker D: And I think it's.
[01:06:53] Speaker F: Without people like you that do sponsor things like this, it wouldn't be possible.
[01:06:58] Speaker A: So, yeah, we love it and we. And we want to do more. You know, Joshua Roth previously was a little bit more in the background.
You know, the. I. I know some people know, but the previous owner wasn't really in the hobby, so he knew of the hobby and obviously he knew a lot of people involved in the hobby, but he didn't grow trees himself. And my background, I'm coming at this as an angle of being a hobbyist first. So I'm totally geeking out. You know, I get, I'm looking at Bjorn right now, you know, and I, I'm a little bit starstruck, even though I've met him 15 times. So I just absolutely love being in this community.
[01:07:32] Speaker F: Would you tell me a little bit more about your tools?
[01:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah, so, so Joshua Roth the brand, it specializes in Japanese imported tools. The line originally started as kind of the cream of the crop or the high end stuff to commit compete with some of the top of the line Japanese names like Masakuni etc in the past. Over the years the line expanded to include some more affordable options. So currently there are four tiers of tools being brought in from Japan. The top tier being the master grade stainless steel tools. Just below that is our top tier of the carbon steel called the Professional line. And then in the middle is an intermediate line of products and then we have a novice grade that's more of an entry level, but it's still all Japanese steel. It's all produced under Japanese factories and workmanship and all of the quality that comes associated with that.
And then Joshua Roth Tools is also the exclusive North American distributor for Ryuga. And that's the brand by Robert Stevens. So the products are made in China, but their quality control standards are very, very top notch. And so their goal, their aim is to meet all of the expectations of Japanese OEM manufacturers. So we've been fortunate to be the distributors here for the Ryuga brand as well. So they're not necessarily cheap. The Ryuga brand, because it's still of a high, very high quality, but because it's manufactured in China, the price points are a little bit lower. So it's a little bit more budget friendly.
[01:09:11] Speaker F: Fantastic.
[01:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:09:12] Speaker F: What's the best way for people to purchase your tools or look into them more?
[01:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah, so that's, that's an interesting one because I get that question asked a lot, especially like with my friends because now that they know I I have Joshua Roth, they want to get the buddy discount. But fortunately, unfortunately our business model is purely wholesale. And so we do not sell, sell direct to the end user. We only sell wholesale to retailers or we call them dealers. So your local bonsai store, you know, if they're not carrying our products, you would need to ask them to carry it. They just reach out to us through our website, you know, our social media. My wife and I kind of started the social media, but the website's getting redone. Once that new website is launched, we'll definitely hit the social medias really hard. But for now, yeah, the way to purchase the tools is going to be through your local retailer, your local professional. That's one of the things that I'm kind of trying to do is reach out to more professionals that are coming back from apprenticeships or doing more workshops and demos versus having their own facility. Because the evolution of a bonsai business right now, at least it seems like that's what the professionals have to do in order to pay the bills. They're not at a home base quite yet, so we want to support those folks. So reach out. You know, anybody and everybody that's in a retail environment can purchase from us and sell our products. So we want to support the entire ecosystem. And so, you know, we have a little bit less business doing it that way, but we feel like that helps the overall community a lot more, especially the businesses that need to be there for us hobbyists to have access to the plants, the materials, the workshop space, all of those things.
[01:10:59] Speaker F: Fantastic. Do you have a California retailer?
[01:11:02] Speaker A: We have many, yeah, yeah, there's. There's quite a few. So up north, not as many, but yeah, down south, you know. Kimura with Bob Pressler is one of our tool vendors. And then Drew Tucker has started carrying our tools. He's around up in the NorCal area, Mendocino Bonsai with Bob Schman. He's been carrying our tools for a very long time. And then there's of course Knee high bonsai in Fresno if you're in the Central coast. But yeah, we're always looking for more.
[01:11:30] Speaker F: Awesome. And I guess lastly, where can people find more information about Jim?
[01:11:35] Speaker A: Well, I mentioned our website. It was literally built 30 years ago. I think the last major update was the Artisans cup in 2015. I can't even go in there and make edits without crashing the website. So I'll give you the website because the URL is not going to change. It's Joshua Roth dot com. But yeah, don't judge me on the current status. I am hoping that by the end of this year the new one will be launched. And then we're also on social media. We have a Facebook page that's kind of a baby page for now just because we don't have a whole lot of stuff to share. But if you look up Joshua Roth on Facebook, you'll be able to find us. And then we have an Instagram account, but there's no content yet again, we want to make sure that our website goes up first. So definitely 2025. That's something we're going to push hard and advertise and things like that. So you'll see us around quite a bit more.
[01:12:25] Speaker F: Awesome.
[01:12:26] Speaker D: Hey.
[01:12:26] Speaker F: Thank you so much for your time.
[01:12:28] Speaker A: Thank you. Jeremiah. You're awesome. And I'm so glad I got to finally shake your hand because I've been a big fan for years. Yeah. All right, cool.
[01:12:35] Speaker E: Thank you.
