Episode #19 Vince Lee - Satoyama Bonsai

[00:00:00] Speaker A: To baby trees. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Bonsai bandai. Banzai time is the one thing you can't really make in Bonsai, right? [00:00:14] Speaker A: Banzai, the black pondo podcast. So Bonsai's about is people having a. [00:00:21] Speaker B: Good time and enjoying themselves. [00:00:23] Speaker A: If it's not fun, it's not Bonsai. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Bonsai. [00:00:25] Speaker A: Or Bonsai. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Bonsai. Bonsai. Bonsai. Bonsai. [00:00:30] Speaker C: That's my favorite subject. Hey, what's going on? This is Jeremiah Lee with the black pondo podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. Really excited to tell you about my Wednesday night. So last Wednesday, I drove out to a secret location in the forest. I met a monk, legitimate monk. I don't know if I've ever met or talked to a monk before or spent time with a monk, legitimately lived in a monastery kind of monk. And he showed me his world class Yamadori that he has been collecting for several months now. His name is Vince Lee of Satoyama 81. You can find him at Satoyama 81 on instagram or Satoyama Bonsai. Yeah, he's a professional yamadori collecting and sounds like a pretty exciting Wednesday evening to me. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a great time. So yeah, I've been traveling for work. So for work, I travel about twice a month on average. And I was out in Denver, Colorado. So my incredible, lovely wife watered for me for the few days that I was gone, as she always does. She does a wonderful job in watering for me. I'm very lucky and fortunate there, but was out in Denver. And I've been talking with Vince about a particular ponderosa pine that he had for sale. But I also was just really interested and curious about who this guy was because he has just these incredible, awesome Yamadori. And I'm like, who is this guy? Like, what is his deal? Have no idea, really. I did meet him, but it was very, very briefly back in 2018 at the US national show, and so really just wanted to learn his story and figure out what was the deal and how is he collecting all these awesome trees. They really are incredible. You should definitely check them out on Instagram if you haven't already. So I got off work probably about 05:00 p.m. and I drove straight there. I probably got there about 06:45 p.m. or so. I know he wanted me to come a little bit earlier, so I felt a little bit bad when I got there. But I drove there, got there about 645. He asked me to pull in behind a black trailer, which was pulled by a white Toyota tacoma. So that is the setup that he utilizes to move trees all around. He has a tow behind black trailer hooked to Toyota Tacoma. He's pulled behind the black trailer. And when I got out, I was a little bit worried that he might be upset because it was 645. That's the time that I told him I would get there, but got out, and Vince was just all smiles the entire time. Greeted me with a big smile on his face. He's just like the friendliest, nicest guy ever, and very interesting dude. So he told me that he had been up since 04:00 a.m. collecting trees, and he had just collected two big, I think they were Colorado spruce. He had two trees that he had collected earlier on in the day. He had just got them back to his site that he leases, and they were still bagged up, bagged with tape around the root balls. And he was, uh, he was getting them watered. When I, when I got there, he was dressed with a bucket hat to keep the sun off of his face. He had glasses on, a brighten green, bright green yellow type shirt, so he was easily visible. And he was just out collecting trees all day, since 04:00 a.m. he told me he apologized because he said that he hadn't eaten all day. So he felt like he was a little bit tired and hungry, but still, just even with that, just had a big smile on his face the entire time. Was so friendly, so helpful. And we just nerded out about Yamadori the entire time that I was there. So, he's currently leasing this land out in Colorado, but he lives in Kentucky, so he had about 80 trees that he had been collecting over the last several months, and his plan was to take them back to Kentucky at a certain point in time, like, probably fairly soon as winter is coming. You can tell what show I like, which show I'm a fan of. If you did, you got that reference there. Anyways, so, Vince, great guy and incredible Yamadori collector. We ended up going out to pizza. He was very hungry, and so was I at that time. We ended up recording a podcast while we were eating pizza. Uh, I am so, so sorry. So, basically probably recorded for about an hour, I think. I I got 36 minutes of the podcast saved. I am so sorry. I'm not. I'm figuring this podcasting thing out, and I'm not an audio engineer or anything like that. So basically, I was using my phone to record the podcast through a program called Riverside. I think you need Internet connection. You need a good Internet connection. Internet was just a little spotty. We just couldn't get it connected right. I got about 36 minutes recorded, so I'm really excited for you to check it out, listen to him, and then at the end of the podcast, I will come back in and I'm going to just talk about some of the things that we, we spoke on after the podcast cut out and just some really interesting points and different things from him. I'm super bummed that it did cut out because I thought that the podcast got better at the end of it and unfortunately missed some of that. So I still hope you enjoy. And after the interview, I will come back in, and I'm just going to talk about a few other things that went down and a few other things we talked about. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. And here is the interview. [00:07:36] Speaker B: Well, we can just meet and chat. Ize. All right, good. Sure. Thank you so much for the pizza. I really appreciate it. I feel bad. So you haven't eaten since this morning? [00:07:50] Speaker A: No, I didn't eat breakfast. [00:07:52] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:07:52] Speaker A: I just had to head to the mountain. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Is that a normal thing for you to not eat breakfast? [00:07:59] Speaker A: I usually don't. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Really. Okay. [00:08:02] Speaker A: I usually don't. I only eat like two meals per day. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Two meals? [00:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:07] Speaker B: I actually usually do the same thing. Two meals, but I usually go breakfast and dinner. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:08:13] Speaker B: What about you? [00:08:15] Speaker A: Lunch and dinner. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Lunch and dinner. Okay, nice. Yeah, I like it because I don't have to think about lunch for me, and then I could just get stuff done. [00:08:25] Speaker A: Oh. But, yeah. [00:08:30] Speaker B: So thank you so much for taking me out to pizza and showing me all your trees. I really, really appreciate it. They're absolutely incredible. Thank you. Just mind blowing. And it's crazy to see what you've accomplished. So would you tell me a little bit about how long you've been collecting? [00:08:52] Speaker A: I've been collecting for, like, I would say 20 years, starting with redwood and olives mostly. [00:09:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:09:02] Speaker A: And then I. I didn't know about collecting the trees from the Rockies, mainly Yamadori. Mm hmm. Until, like, I would say about ten years. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:18] Speaker A: I did. But I started out. I collect. I collected, like, just okay trees to get the experience, to get. To pick up the knowledge. Yeah. [00:09:32] Speaker B: So I think it's important to collect just okay trees in the beginning because you want to make sure that you understand the process and the aftercare and you're not killing a bunch of trees when you just get started. You know, I think too often beginners just go gung ho and it doesn't work out well for them. [00:09:55] Speaker A: Yeah, actually, that's to me, I truly respect nature a lot. And if I were to, that's why, like when. When I was able to get the high percentage of survival rates before I start to dig a tree, I would examine the root system and study it really well first. And to know that I have at least 90% survival rate before I start digging. I want to dig a tree that knowing that there's a 50 50. So, yeah, it's very important to know the. Because not all trees can survive because they go through a lot of shock when you try and do a lot of things through the root system. Sometimes I have seen trees that dug up from the wild and were just kept behind basically because they didn't take it, because there wasn't any roots. And it made me feel really dead. [00:11:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. [00:11:10] Speaker A: Because the knowledge of connection wasn't there, wasn't sufficient enough to begin with. And I feel, for me personally, I fully respect mother nature. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I always. [00:11:28] Speaker A: I always prayed for permission before and after. I always. I spend like five minutes each for each week and connect with the street first. I just don't just go and just collect without asking permission, even though I'm. I have to permit the owner of permits from the ranger stations, but I still have to ask my nature for permission and pray for. For all the sentient beings as well as non sentient beings who lives around. To me, that's. I just appreciate Mother Nature so much. And to me, that's small things I can do to show my appreciation. [00:12:17] Speaker B: That's beautiful. I love it. And please feel free to eat. I can edit the little parts of silence out. I feel bad because I'm just sorry. [00:12:26] Speaker A: I'm a bit. I'm really hungry. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah. No, no, no. Please, please, let's take breaks. Let's eat. Oh, man, I think that's so cool. Yeah. I did a podcast with Aki Getsuni bonsai and he told me that you're a monk, which I think is just very interesting and cool. I don't know any other monks and so please excuse my ignorance if I ask any dumb questions, but it's really interesting and fascinating to me. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Oh, no, no. See me as your good friend. Yeah, sometimes I'm very. Usually I'm very grouchy, but I turn on my compassion mode. [00:13:17] Speaker B: So tell me about the goal and eat your pizza first. But I'm really curious about the goal. And so I'm also going to ask you some questions that I already asked you, but it was really good information. So I would love to know more about the goal with all this collecting that you're doing, because you have just a ton of incredible trees. And I'm curious, like, why do you collect? [00:13:52] Speaker A: Oh, I like me being out in nature. It's wide field has a large field of therapies. For me personally, it's like being meditating, being with mother Nature. It's very soothing, very healing. At the same time, it gives you a sense of calmness where you don't get that when you're exposed into, like a large crowd, like a football game or sports arena, things like that. But I feel like being with Mother Nature, it's. It brings me back home to through my true self, and I have a connection with her each and every day that I get to expose to them. [00:14:49] Speaker B: That's beautiful. I feel the same way for me. So I work an office job, and when I was younger, I was in boy scouts and I got into backpacking, and that was my first exposure to being in the outdoors and the mountains. And then later in life, I got an office job. But now I feel like I crave being out in the mountains and the wilderness, and it really balances me out. And to be happy, I feel like I need to get up into the mountains or out into nature on a regular basis. So I totally get where you're coming from there. [00:15:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And not besides from the healing properties that make your offer. [00:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:37] Speaker A: I collect priests because I wanted to start established meditation center so I can help people in a spiritual way or emotional way. I feel like that's the really important aspect of life, is to be mindful. Mindful of our actions, our thoughts, and our speeches in a way, so we can utilize all the practices, so we can purify ourselves each and every day. We. I feel like we beautify ourselves with all the materialistic things in life, like clothes, lotions, things like that. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:32] Speaker A: But we also need to beautify our inner aspect of ourselves in a way. In a way, so we can enjoy life much, much more. And when we enjoy life, everything we do, so it feels like, so heavenly. Because you feel you're the most blessed person in this world. You feel like you're at peace with everything. And even if someone were to say something, that can be very hurtful to you, but you can just brush it off, and that's when I'll reason why. Another reason why I collect is because I also like to give back to the community. So far, I have donated 100, about, approximately 100 bonsai and three bonsai and as well as garn trees to botanical gardens, monasteries, bonsai gardens. So I'll continue to do that until I die. Yes. [00:17:44] Speaker B: That is incredible. That is truly incredible. Thank you very much for that. And please eat. [00:17:56] Speaker A: Sorry, it might sound boring. [00:17:58] Speaker B: No, no, this is incredible. I really enjoyed talking with you and learning from you. I feel like, I like people that are very reflective and think about things in a different light in a different way. And so I really appreciate getting to hang out with you. [00:18:25] Speaker A: It's great to see you, too. It has been four years. Is it four years since we last met in New York? [00:18:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:35] Speaker A: Out of shows, you didn't change a bit. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:41] Speaker A: You look. You still look young. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Not good. Let's do it. [00:18:47] Speaker A: I went through a lot of plastic surgeries. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Nice, nice. So where do you want to open this, this meditation center? Would this be in Denver or back in your home in Kentucky? [00:19:05] Speaker A: I would say my, because my family wanted me to be back in Colorado due to the health reasons of my parents, and they need all the help that they can get. So, in Colorado. I really like Colorado a lot because when I came to the United States, I lived here four years in Colorado before I entered the monastery. So it brought back a lot of menus. Yeah. [00:19:45] Speaker B: So would you give me a little bit of background on yourself? So you grew up in Denver or Colorado? [00:19:54] Speaker A: Yes, when I was young. [00:19:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:19:58] Speaker A: And after that, I moved to California. [00:20:01] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:20:02] Speaker A: That's when I entered the monastery at tender age of 15. [00:20:07] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Yes. And that at that time, I went to Chinatown. [00:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:15] Speaker A: I saw the potted trees, which happened to be three chinese elm, growing in a very shallow pot. And I was just so made. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:20:25] Speaker A: My, my heart just was like, I've never seen that. Just anything that can grow into very shallow pot. And yet it's so beautiful and elegant, and it has the nicest movement. And I just stood there for the longest time just observing and admiring the trees until the lady came and asked me if I need help and says, uh, what, what type of tree that that is? And, um, she said, it's a chinese elm, and it's a. In a bonsai. Yeah. I said, what is bonsai? So she explained to me, in her best knowledge, in her best terminology, she said, tree growing up. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:11] Speaker A: And I was, I was so amazed. I came back home, and I was kept on thinking about it the whole time, and I was like, what? I always questioned myself, what is Bonsai? And how do they get to grow in that tiny pot? And that's when any time I went to the library, I would check out books and read about. All about Wang's eye and stuff. Yeah, that's how I get started. I would say it was love at first sight for me because my heart was pounding. Like, it was truly shaking it. And I've never. I don't know. It's just the feelings, like, feelings of connecting with the trees and just like a voice open all my senses. It was just amazing. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Wow, that's so cool. I can tell that you have a deep passion for bonsai and collecting trees, and it's just really cool. I can feel it from you. [00:22:19] Speaker A: I do. I would say it's something that's innate. I feel like the personality that you have is the continuation of who you are as a person. Like, you like video games, some people like sports, some people like traveling or some people like studying. It's the innate ability you just have to express it. [00:22:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So tell me. It's. It's kind of crazy to me. So is. So collecting trees, is that your full time gig right now? [00:23:05] Speaker A: Yes, right now it is full time. I spent every day, basically seven days away right now. That's awesome. [00:23:15] Speaker B: I love it. [00:23:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I never get tired. Yeah. It just. That. The energy that's immense. I never get tired. It just. I always wake up at 04:00 a.m. in the morning and just work. Sometimes I can't bow when the distance of going back too far, I don't. I'm not afraid of the wilderness. It's just. I don't know, it's, uh. It's my practice. I would say I have encountered bearers, but I'm not afraid. They ran away from me. I don't know why, but I'm not afraid to die. Even if, like, I were to a bear were to kill me. I feel like my life is come to an end and I'm happy to go. I don't think on to anything. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:11] Speaker A: So. [00:24:12] Speaker B: Well, I do fear, embarrassed. [00:24:15] Speaker C: And I think I would be. [00:24:18] Speaker B: I would be scared if I encountered it there. But I. I think, yeah. It's so cool to talk with you about your passion. And I can tell how passionate you are. [00:24:30] Speaker A: One time I went to scouting and I. I was just like 5ft away there. And since I came up from. He was on top of the hill and I came up from behind and the boulder was in between. And I looked over at him and he was in starch. He stared at me for, I would say, at least 1 minute. And he decided to run away. [00:24:54] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. [00:24:56] Speaker A: But I wasn't scared. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Was it a big, full size bear? [00:25:00] Speaker A: It was a black bear. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Wow. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:25:02] Speaker A: It was a black bear, but I wasn't scared. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't mean any harm to him. [00:25:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:09] Speaker A: I. I just crave animals, so, yeah, hopefully they're nice to me. I sound nice to them. [00:25:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I think my favorite part of collecting trees is the scouting process. I don't know what your thoughts are, but do you enjoy that aspect of it? [00:25:30] Speaker A: Oh, yes. I. [00:25:33] Speaker B: It's like treasure hunting to me. [00:25:35] Speaker A: Yes, it is. It's so invigorating. Like, I take a lot of rest when I go shouting, because. And just to see if I were to find tree, and I would just sit there and just talk to the tree, admire the tree. There's no rush. I don't like to go, like, scouting and just rush, rush. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:00] Speaker A: You know, there's. For me, I don't set. I don't set the goals of how long I need to walk in a. In a particular day. [00:26:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:08] Speaker A: Sometimes I just spend there, a couple hours, just sitting there and enjoying nature. [00:26:16] Speaker B: Oh, I'm the same way. I just take my time and enjoy things. And one of my favorite things to do is actually eat a meal out in the woods when you're walking around, especially if you find a nice tree or. [00:26:29] Speaker A: That's picnic to me. [00:26:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I bring the snacks and food and just eat there and just enjoy. For me, like, people say, don't you get lonely? I say to me, I never. I never have a sense of, uh, loneliness. Even I live by. Even though I live by myself, I watch tv. I don't go to any events. [00:26:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:56] Speaker A: But I feel so at peace. [00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:58] Speaker A: I don't feel lonely. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Now, is. Is any of that due to you being a monk? Like, can you watch tv as a monk? And please excuse my ignorance. I don't know any about. [00:27:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, you can. You can watch tv. But I. I decided not to get. I decided to get away from technology as much as possible. [00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's very smart. Very wise. Yeah. [00:27:26] Speaker A: I hope I'm doing the right thing. [00:27:30] Speaker B: I also try and cut back on tv. There's still certain shows and movies. They're really good. I think it's worth your time. Yeah, but other than that, I think people spend too much time watching tv, and it doesn't really accomplish all that much. [00:27:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, if you can watch, things like that are educational. [00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Like the National Geographic, where they shows, like, animals and nature, things like that. To me, that's education. Learn about different culture. [00:27:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:00] Speaker A: I used to watch it when I was in college, but now I quit a long time. Quit watching tv like 20 years ago. [00:28:10] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, yeah. So what were you doing before? And please eat. What were you doing before? Collecting. So you were it, you lived in a monastery for a while? [00:28:24] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:24] Speaker B: And then you, did you have a normal job for a while? [00:28:28] Speaker A: No, I did. No, I didn't. It was a full time job. Wow. We want to hearing, like, working, learning, doing chores, leading, um, like the, uh, teaching for the youth group. [00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Going to finger services, performing ceremonials. [00:28:51] Speaker B: It's, it's very fascinating, very fun. I would love to pick your brain more on that. Although after seeing your trees, I'm just mesmerized by how incredible they were. Like, seriously, just so, so incredible. [00:29:06] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, yeah. My goal is, when I started out, I always aim with collecting quality over quantities. [00:29:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's apparent. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah. That's why I only collect an average of one tree a day. Yes. So I always concentrate on quality. To me, it's a big volume and I can able to connect it more, but the amount of walking, it's really far. And to bring, like, let's just say bring back five trees, it's not, to me, it's not worth it. I just bring back just one tree. [00:29:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, how do you typically bring them back? You use a pack or. You're telling me you use some type of, like a stretcher? [00:30:00] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, the rescue stretcher. [00:30:02] Speaker B: Okay, so it's a rescue stretcher. [00:30:04] Speaker A: Yeah. With sometimes, most of the time, two people. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:09] Speaker A: And sometimes four people. The, for the showing. [00:30:16] Speaker B: The big, big. Okay. [00:30:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:19] Speaker B: So tell me more about your, like, I mean, you have a ton of trees out there. Tell me more about your operation. Do you have hired employees or just people that you work with? Sometimes, yes, I do. [00:30:34] Speaker A: Help one regular helper. [00:30:36] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:37] Speaker A: But for example, if, like on the weekends, my friends are available, like for big trees, I would enlist their help as well. [00:30:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Because there's no way to bring the down big tree with just two weak people. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Now. Yeah. So when I talk about collecting, I often say that it's like treasure hunting mixed with sport, because the wandering around, scouting out trees, that's, to me, that's the fun part. And you get to look and it's so fun to find new trees, and that's the treasure hunting. [00:31:26] Speaker A: It's rock climbing. What really, really intrigued me the most. Yeah, I. Yeah, it's really fun to do rock climbing just because sometimes you have to climb up big boulders. Climb down big boulders. Yeah, it's. It's fun. [00:31:42] Speaker B: Yeah. But it's also very physically demanding. Right. I mean, I feel like. [00:31:50] Speaker A: Oh, talk about rock climbing. I did. I dig trees from the cliffs off the side of the cliff all the time, and I use ropes and harnesses. [00:32:05] Speaker B: Uh huh. Oh, wow. [00:32:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Wow. I do. [00:32:08] Speaker A: And. [00:32:10] Speaker B: I. I have to be very. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Careful because, uh, I have to use the secondary rope, make sure that if the first rope, if something happened to it, I can catch on to the second rope. [00:32:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. I have not done that because, uh. [00:32:27] Speaker A: And honestly, like, a lot of victories from the offside of the cliff, where it's been battered by the snow and especially by the wind, and it gives it a lot of good dead wood, good movement. Yeah, that's. But it's very difficult. Yeah, very difficult. [00:32:51] Speaker B: Let me give you a quick break to eat some more pizza. [00:32:57] Speaker A: What, you have never done that before? [00:32:59] Speaker B: No, I haven't done that. Although I collected one tree, and it was at a very heavy slope. [00:33:06] Speaker C: This was very dangerous. [00:33:07] Speaker B: I shouldn't have done this. I was by myself. It was a very big tree, and. [00:33:13] Speaker C: It was just a steep angle like this. [00:33:15] Speaker B: And then at the end of the cliff, there was a big drop off. Like, I don't know how many feet it was, but I would have either been dead or seriously, seriously hurt if I fell. And I should have tied myself in. It was so stupid. And I will not do that ever, ever again. But I should have figured out how to tie myself in just so that if I did fall, I would have been okay. But I was just so slow. Like, that tree took me 5 hours to extract because I was so careful and thoughtful of every single move. But I should have tied myself in, and it wasn't like, you know, this is straight up off a vertical foot. [00:33:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I dig trees from the. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:03] Speaker A: On the cliff all the time. [00:34:05] Speaker B: Wow, that's crazy. I would love to see a video. [00:34:08] Speaker A: But you have to be very freely careful. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:34:12] Speaker A: Your. [00:34:12] Speaker B: Your. Your food. [00:34:14] Speaker A: Basically, your life will be just gone. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Be careful when you're out there. [00:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah, be. Be careful. I won't spice anyone to do it. [00:34:21] Speaker B: Yeah, don't do it. [00:34:22] Speaker A: It's very risky. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:24] Speaker A: Very dangerous. [00:34:25] Speaker B: Oh, wow. I can't even imagine. [00:34:34] Speaker A: One thing I like to say to, like, anyone who's interested, please always get the permits. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:43] Speaker A: From the landowner or from the ranger station. To me, that's very. The proper way to do it. It's not worth it to. For ethically, it's not worth it. And it's illegal to do it in such a way. [00:35:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:03] Speaker A: So I always advise people to. To do it in the right way. [00:35:07] Speaker B: 100%. Can I move this a little closer to you? The mic. Perfect. There we go. So you do a combination of private land and national forest permits. [00:35:21] Speaker A: Yes. National or National Forest Service. [00:35:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:26] Speaker A: And BLM, too. [00:35:27] Speaker B: Got it. [00:35:28] Speaker A: Yes. Because they operate their two different systems. [00:35:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:35:32] Speaker A: Two different branches. Basically. You just have to know where you're at. Yeah, and. [00:35:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:35:38] Speaker A: And sometimes, like. Like the range, the ranger were to come and ask you where would the permit would be. Sometimes I show them both. [00:35:48] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:35:49] Speaker A: Just to make sure. [00:35:50] Speaker B: That's great. [00:35:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:51] Speaker B: Nice. [00:35:52] Speaker A: Never getting in trouble with. Yeah. It's good to always follow the. [00:35:57] Speaker B: The rules and regulation, the laws 100% completely free. Don't get in trouble. [00:36:06] Speaker A: One more thing I really like about collecting bone scouting is that I. I'm a trash. I'm a trash picker. I always bring a bag with me when I go scouting and always come back with a crash full of, like, people left behind. Beer bottles, cans, trash, stuff like that. [00:36:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I love that. [00:36:31] Speaker A: For me, I feel like it's a way of showing mother nature the respect. [00:36:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:37] Speaker A: Because if everybody keeps on doing it, our national forest will be not enjoyable. So I think it's best to show your love and respect for not only to nature, but to all the. To all the people. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:36:55] Speaker A: Because there are a lot of people, mostly, I've seen, like, collect a lot of beer bottles, to be honest, a lot. [00:37:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:37:05] Speaker A: And I always. I always do my part to do whatever I can to help keep the environment clean. [00:37:14] Speaker B: Thank you very much. I think that's a very beautiful thing that you're doing, and I respect that heavily. What kind of tools do you use? [00:37:28] Speaker A: I use. I use sickle sledge bar, crowbar sledgehammer, if needed, to break the big chunks of rock. Yeah, that's mainly. That's the tools that I use. Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Nice. Yeah. I feel like the number one tool I use is a big fry bar, primarily, and I found for big trees. [00:38:00] Speaker C: You need big tools. [00:38:02] Speaker B: So I was trying to, like, when I first got started collecting, I would use too small of tools, and, like, I would use a little pry bar trying to collect a big tree, and it would just bend the bar or it wouldn't do anything and just possibly damage the tree. So I've learned that I like big tools. I have a really big, heavy pry bar that I like to use. [00:38:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that one works. [00:38:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:31] Speaker B: And so how many trees do you think you have that we just looked at today? [00:38:37] Speaker A: I would say probably 80. [00:38:40] Speaker B: 80? Yeah. Yeah. It's impressive. That's a lot of trees. [00:38:46] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:38:47] Speaker B: And then back home, do you have a. [00:38:49] Speaker A: Do you enjoy it? [00:38:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. No, I feel like a little kid at Disneyland when I saw your trees. The trees that you're collecting are truly spectacular. Phenomenal. Like some of the best Yamadori that I've seen. [00:39:06] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:39:06] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Yeah, it's very impressive. [00:39:09] Speaker A: I see. I use that as an encouragement and motivation for me to get more quality crease. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Great. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Hopefully you will come to visit me. [00:39:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. So you were telling me you kind of focus on specific species. Like, right now, you're focusing on ponderosa, Douglas fir and blue spruce. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Blue spruce, yeah. [00:39:41] Speaker B: So you had a few Rocky Mountain junipers. [00:39:43] Speaker A: A few, yeah. [00:39:45] Speaker B: And you were saying maybe next year you'll focus on Rocky Mountain junipers. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that's my main goal for next year. [00:39:52] Speaker B: And is that mostly because you go into one location? Yeah. And that's where the pondo. Pondos are. And that's where the blue spruce are. Okay, cool. They're not so intermixed. So did you kind of just stumble upon the Rocky Mountain junipers in a. In an area that you usually collect ondarosa? [00:40:13] Speaker A: They mainly grow. They mainly grow, like, in. With few. A few ponderosas minced with a lot of, uh, around, surrounded by. [00:40:29] Speaker B: Ah, yes. [00:40:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:31] Speaker B: Great, great. I'm gonna get some more water. You want, I think. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Oh, no, I have ice. That's why. That's why I'm. [00:40:40] Speaker B: And I can edit out all that. [00:40:42] Speaker A: You can see. I do all the dig. [00:40:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:40:45] Speaker A: See, my hands are like sandpaper. I can use my hand to. You want anything to be sanded? [00:40:55] Speaker B: Do you ever wear gloves when you flick or. [00:40:57] Speaker A: No, just no, because I can't feel the roots. [00:41:01] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:41:01] Speaker A: I have to get under and feel the roots. You can't feel. [00:41:05] Speaker B: You can't seal it with gloves. Yeah, yeah. [00:41:08] Speaker A: There's a lot of. The fingers are very, very good with sensations. The gloves. You can't do it. [00:41:14] Speaker B: Yeah, you can't do it. Wow. Makes sense. Yeah. Do you collect as long as you can access the areas, or do you prefer to collect in certain months or certain time periods? [00:41:26] Speaker A: Like, depends on the species specimens? Yeah. Like, on the roadside, you can collect basically from spring to the autumn seasons. But, like, limber pines, they like to be in a school environment. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:46] Speaker A: They don't. They don't like to be collected in the summer, basically. Just stay away from collecting limber pine and thumbnails. Yes. [00:41:55] Speaker B: And so you're telling me that sometimes you will go out, like 19 miles, collect a tree, and then have to camp out there because it's just such a bar. [00:42:09] Speaker A: Yeah. There's no way I can make it back to base camp. [00:42:12] Speaker B: Basically, 19 miles is a long. [00:42:16] Speaker A: No, 16 miles. That's the six that was the most I walked. [00:42:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:21] Speaker A: But it was, to me was. It was nothing because I enjoyed so much. Yeah. [00:42:27] Speaker B: That also. You're also in really good shape. [00:42:31] Speaker A: That's why I'm skinny. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't think a lot of people could walk that far with a tree over really rugged terrain. I mean, you know, that's. It's not easy. It's not easy. [00:42:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I know. Like, people use that special backpack thing. [00:42:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I don't use that. Yeah, I have one of those. [00:42:52] Speaker A: I don't use that because that's added weight. I find a way to tie, see the trees. [00:42:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:59] Speaker A: So it protects the bark, too. [00:43:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:02] Speaker A: And I can put it on my shoulder. I can carry more. More than. I have tried everything you can imagine. I have tried everything. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:14] Speaker A: But I do whatever I can to lessen the weight. [00:43:19] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. Make sense. Makes sense. I know they do sell packs that don't actually have the pack part. It's just the metal frame. And they even have really expensive ones, though. They're really expensive. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Titanium. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Or carbon fiber. Yeah. [00:43:36] Speaker A: Titanium is the best. [00:43:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:38] Speaker A: Or it's really lightweight. Like, go for that one. [00:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. [00:43:47] Speaker A: But some people are very strong. I'm not that strong. Some people are really strong. [00:43:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I think you're pretty strong for being able to collect trees. It's not. It's not easy, and it does, but. [00:44:03] Speaker A: I find putting the trees on my shoulder and carry back is really helpful. [00:44:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:10] Speaker C: Just to maintain your strength or get. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Stronger, to get more leverage, balance. Oh, okay. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Instead of using that backpack. Yeah. Okay. But you have to. You have to tie that. You have to wrap the bark. [00:44:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:27] Speaker A: To protect it. [00:44:28] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:44:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:30] Speaker B: You are hardcore. All right. [00:44:35] Speaker C: So sorry about that. It did cut out right there due to cell phone reception, I believe. So I apologize about that. I'm going to be working on that. But did want to talk about a few other things that we spoke about, which I found interesting in the podcast and when I was checking out all of Vince's incredible trees. So one thing we were chatting about was just his thoughts on aftercare, and I asked him about the specific soil mix that he uses and he explained that he uses pumice just like I do. However, the one difference that he does, which I do not do, and I don't know about this, but it was his belief that he would collect specific soil from the mountain. So, in specific areas, though, and he was looking for something specifically within the soil, which I think is very interesting. And his thought was that the mycelium and the mycorrhizal relationships, the fungi within that native soil, would help the trees to recover on a faster basis. So I'm not exactly sure the ratios that he used when mixing it or anything like that, but he did think that if you put some of that native soil, and he was looking for a very specific soil, which I find interesting, and he would mix some of that in with the pumice to improve the mycelium and mycorrhizal relationships within the soil. Another thing I thought was interesting that he told me is that, in his opinion, the ultimate aftercare setup would be a shade structure where you could adjust the percentage of shade, and then he would put lava or scoria. Scoria down on. On the ground, and that would really help to increase or maintain a higher humidity level, which I also thought was really interesting. Uh, that would be the ultimate aftercare setup. So right now, his trees are all in a wooded area where there are natural ponderosa pine growing. However, the ponderosa are fairly spread out. So there's a good amount of sunlight, but it's kind of like slightly dappled sunlight because the sun is hitting some of those larger ponderosa. But he thought ultimate aftercare setup for him would be shade structure with different shade cloth percentages, and then trees sitting on scoria to maintain the high humidity. He had all of his trees on the ground. He had trees in various different types of boxes. I did really like the. The book boxes that he had. He did build some boxes for his own trees, but primarily he had these pre made wooden boxes, and then also these black plastic tubs, which he utilized, which were really nice. A lot of those black plastic tubs, they'll disintegrate because the plastic quality is kind of cheap. But these ones were, like, commercial grade plastic tubs. He did tell me that they're pretty expensive. Like, one tub might be cost around $110 or so. So somewhat costly, but also very nice. He explained to me that back home he has a mini skid steer that he bought, and he was telling me that he basically got, like, 0% financing on it, which was really cool. But a lot of his trees, he keeps on pallets just so that they're easy to move with machinery. And he has a mini skid steer back at home. I remember telling him that, or asking him, oh, so are you going to rent, like, a box truck to get all your trees back? And he's like, no, no, no, a semi. So he needs like a, like a. The largest size semi to get all of his trees back to Kentucky because there was, like 80 of them and a lot of them were very, very large. I really liked hearing his stories about hiking really far distances and then camping out with the trees. I really like to hear how he talked about praying before he collected. He talked to me a bit about living in a monastery for several years before becoming a full time Yamadori collector. He also told me that if you are going to or whenever he cuts a big branch off of a tree, he'll try and cut that branch off in the field. So in, when he finds a tree that he wants to collect, ideally he'll cut off a big branch if he's going to do any major branch cuts, and then he will wait for two years before collecting. So essentially, like, he does a big operation, and then he allows the tree to recover for two years in the natural environment. He didn't say this, but I would assume that you would want to try and, like, water that tree if at all possible, and or possibly fertilize it to get it really healthy and vigorous before the collect. But I do like the idea of doing a major operation on any tree and then just giving it years before you collect or do a major operation on the tree. Again, one thing we talked about was collecting one seed junipers. So he was asking me if I have collected Californias or one seed. And I explained that I have, like, really limited experience in that and that I don't like collecting California junipers because I don't know the proper technique in order to collect them with a high survivability, ability or success rate. And often I found that it's way easier to get a lot of roots and a fine root pad on a Sierra juniper, which is growing in a rock crack or in the duff within a rock pocket. And he was trying to explain to me how to collect one seed junipers, which I thought was really cool and really interesting. The gist of it that I got, and I would love to pick his brain more on this, was a, essentially, you have to get a very large root ball. So a very, very large root ball where you have a lot of roots, and then you also have a lot of loose soil around those roots. And he was explaining that using some type of metal mesh and tarp, you can hold large amounts of soil in place and keep a large amount of roots. But this seems like a major operation to me, and I don't think it's the type of thing that you do without either like heavy machinery or mini people, or maybe I just don't know how to do it and there is a proper method with one person. But I thought that was really interesting. I think that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, both of us were talking about how a lot of California junipers, for example, were collected and died. And the success rate amongst California junipers, we both feel, is a lot lower compared to junipers, where you can get a good amount of roots, fine matted roots that grow in rock pockets. I found it really interesting that Vince explained that he's just really into scouting and scouting multiple areas and multiple states. It sounds like he is just truly passionate, and the passion is what drives him to do so much scouting and so much collecting, which I absolutely love. I find that to be a very beautiful thing. But yeah, he is scouting multiple states. Like, he was talking to me about some areas in California coming out to collect, and I think he's in several different states in order to find the best quality trees. I think his goal seems to be to find only high, high quality Yamadori, and he wants to find the best trees in the United States. And I definitely respect that. So Vince was explaining to me that one of his goals in selling Yamadori is to open a meditation center in the future. And I thought that was really cool and really interesting. I very much enjoyed asking him questions about his philosophy on things, and him living in the monastery and being a monk. I really don't know much about that, and so I felt kind of funny asking him these questions, but he was very kind and answered all my questions and explained things to me, and I found that my impression of Vince was that he was very, very wise, and he had figured some things out in his mind. So I really enjoyed hearing his thoughts. And I'm really bummed because towards the end of the podcast, and while we're looking at his trees, he talked to me a lot about happiness and fulfillment within life, which is something that I am personally striving towards each and every day. And he had some personal philosophies, which he lived by, and a lot of those had to do with not chasing after material things or beauty. Basically, he was explaining to me that materialistic possessions or trying to be beautiful all the time is not what makes someone happy and fulfilled within their life, and that you can find happiness through training your mind in the right ways. Unfortunately, I am not doing a good job or doing what he told me any justice. And so I wish I would have had that part of the podcast recorded. Still super bummed about that, but we had some cool conversations. I was explaining to him that, like, you know, I get hangry sometimes. And I think recently I've realized that everybody is going to get upset or angry or hangry at some point in their life, and that is okay. But it's more so about how you react after you've realized, hey, I am hangry. And it's more so about training your mind so that you spend less time angry and upset, and you spend more time where you feel happy and fulfilled, and you can turn that hangriness around very quickly. And I think he agreed with me when I was explaining this to him. He was saying that, yes, everybody gets angry. And it's about how do you change your mind? How do you make your mind stronger so that you don't spend so much time in the hangry zone or the angry zone, or the unhappy or unfulfilled zone? How do you learn to truly enjoy mother nature, beautiful things around you which don't necessarily cost money? And I really enjoyed listening to him and learning from him. And I really do think that he is a very wise monk, and I hope that we can become, continue to become friends, and I can continue to come check out his awesome Yamadori and keep talking to him and, and getting to know him better, because he is a very interesting and cool bonsai monk. And I really, really appreciated the visit out there, and I hope to see him again soon. So anyways, thank you so much for listening. I really, really appreciate it. Hope you enjoyed that. I apologize about the auto audio, but I'll get it better in the future. And thanks so much for listening. [00:57:56] Speaker A: Sadeena. Oh.