#30 Bob Ricker and Julian Tsai at the Naka Memorial Exhibit

[00:00:00] Speaker A: To baby trees. The Black Pondo Podcast. The Black Pondo Podcast. Hey, what's going on? This is Jeremiah Lee with the Black Pondo Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. I really appreciate it. So I just got back from the Naka Memorial exhibit down in Southern California. So it was a little show that Julian Sai put on in Little Tokyo LA and it coincided with the Nisei Week which is basically just the Japanese cultural festival that they have down there. Had a really great time. It was jam packed. The area was just like crazy crowded. Living up in the central coast, the population is just not as dense as it is in la. And I kind of always just forget how, how mad it gets down in LA sometimes. And this was just in the center of downtown Little Tokyo. It was coinciding during Nisei Week. So there was all these cool things going on alongside the Bonsai show and around the Bonsai show. Lots of really great Japanese food which I definitely indulged in. Lots of street vendors selling curry and sushi and ramen and all kinds of good stuff. There was taiko drummers that performed. There was like a parade, all kinds of great stuff. But the Expo or the exhibit was, was really nice. So Julie and Sai put this on. I talked to Michael Roberts briefly about the history of it and he was telling me that this has been a show that's been going on for close to 40 years or so. It was originally kind of John Naka's invitational club that would put on this display in this exact same building. So it was the JACCC building and he was explaining to me that it was just a very of a show that was just all about the trees. So it was, it wasn't big into to the display. It was very simply laid out with a lot of white. And then the focus was a lot on the trees and the, the displays which I think is really cool. And I guess back in the day it was very hard to get into and it was an invitational only type club and it was basically like the, the cream of the crop back then when John Naka was running that. So I think it's so cool that it is still going on and that Julian stepped up and and basically volunteered to take on this show. So I wanted to go down and support. I showed my redwood there. I was also there with Peter T and his crew. So Peter organized a bunch of friends to come down and some of us displayed trees. But we all hung out which was really cool. So it was me, Peter Caesar from Senkal Bonsai, Bob Ricker Mark, Tony, Ron, Kenny. And we had an awesome time just all hanging out together. One thing we were all about was the food down in la. I feel like on the Central coast there's just not that great of Asian food. And I. I just love. I'm. I'm an Asian food connoisseur. I love Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, all Asian food. And so really took advantage of that. We hit up some dim sum. We got some family style Chinese. We had great Japanese food, Korean, and some good wine flowing. Kenny hooked it up with the wine. We all went to medieval times. One night we were cheering on the Green Knight, although he turned out to be the villain. But it was really fun. Like just such a great group. Peter. Peter has kind of put together this really cool crew. We had a lot of really good laughs, a lot of talking about bonsai, but other things as well. We also went to the Huntington Gardens, so definitely shout out to Daniel Deephouse and the crew that puts on the Huntington Gardens bonsai display. I was very impressed with both the Japanese bonsai display garden and the Chinese Pinjing display area. Both of those are very nice. And the Huntington is really big. Like I didn't realize how massive the gardens are. There's all these different sections that you can go to. There was like a really cool rose garden. Of course, I mostly loved looking at the Japanese and the Chinese bonsai and penging gardens. I was also very impressed with the dry rock landscape garden that they had there. It was absolutely stunning. Could look at there, could sit there and. And just ponder and think and appreciate the beauty of that garden for quite a long time. But we all had fun. We were joking around, walking around, checking out the trees together, which is always, always great when you have a good group. So anyways, I got two interviews for you lined up on this episode. The first is with Bob Ross Ricker, who is part of Peter T's crew. He's also the vice president of ABAS in Sacramento. He's a student of Peter T. Good. Turning out to be a good friend of mine. We haven't hung out all that much, but every time I hang out with Bob, I just love hanging out with him. And we always have a great time. And then the second is with Julian Tsai who put on the show. So one thing I did want to say is I apologize. The interviews, we. First off, we could not find anywhere to sit down in a. In a quiet area. So we ended up going up to like the fifth floor of the building that the bonsai show was in. And sometimes it was quiet, but a lot of the time people just kept walking by and Tao drummers were outside. People were just being loud, which, I mean, as they should be, but we just couldn't find a good spot to record and make it nice and quiet. So I do apologize. Audio quality is not the best. That is something that I am really trying to work on and I would like to improve here, but especially the. The first interview that I'm going to play with Bob Ricker. I'm so sorry, Bob. We'll have to podcast again, but the audio quality is just kind of okay. It's very raw and unfiltered. I didn't edit it. There's definitely some points where there's like some random people coming up and talking with us, people passing by, but hope you can appreciate and still might give it a listen. I was, I thought it was very good conversation. I really enjoy talking with Bob. He's an awesome guy and he is learning a lot about bonsai, as am I. If you don't like the audio quality, you just can't listen to that. Then Julian is over the last 20 something minutes, so you can skip ahead to that one. That audio quality is a little bit better. We're still in a hallway upstairs on the fifth floor, but there was just less people around during that time. So once, once again, apologize on the audio quality there, but thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy. [00:08:10] Speaker B: Yes, his trees look great. I know he goes out of town for business and all this other stuff all the time. And it's not like, you know, I never hear him say, ah, I was in, you know, Utah and I lost 10 trees. It's, you know, everything seems very healthy, very well watered. [00:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:26] Speaker B: So carnival. I'm just going to copy you. [00:08:29] Speaker A: It seems like he has the closest thing to hand watering in an automated system that you could have. [00:08:34] Speaker B: Yep. [00:08:34] Speaker A: Although he also has a Travis. [00:08:37] Speaker B: Yes. It would be nice to get a Travis. [00:08:41] Speaker A: How do you get a Travis? [00:08:42] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah, much. You need much better trees person than I have. [00:08:47] Speaker A: So you and Travis are homies, right? [00:08:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Nice. How did you guys connect? [00:08:53] Speaker B: Actually, through Peter's workshop. Yeah. When. When I was asked by my club president, I was going to the beginner workshops, I was bringing some of the redwoods I'd been working on and they kind of made a crack like, you know, you don't need to be coming to the beginner workshops. And Dodie said, oh, I'm setting up a group to go work with Peter, you know, it's going to be X amount as many times the. Here. Do you want to be do that? [00:09:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Oh yeah. And then so when I showed up the first day, Travis was there and started talking. And now we're now friends. [00:09:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Nice. You guys have done some collecting together? [00:09:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. We've gone and collect some oaks and then we went on a collecting trip with the club and went to the White Mountains and Bishop and got junipers and lodgepole vines. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Nice. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Yeah. That was a lot of fun. We camped out stuff like you split a campsite kind of thing. Yeah, it was. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Fun. [00:09:51] Speaker A: Yeah. That was actually the first collecting that I ever did was in the White Mountain. [00:09:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:56] Speaker A: And like I. I went there with my wife a couple times that drug her out. We were still together back then. This was like two. 2009. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:07] Speaker A: And. But then I also made a few trips by myself. Just totally by myself. I remember Eric Schrader hooked me up with how to get permits. [00:10:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:16] Speaker A: And went out there, collected a bunch of trees and it was good like first time experience for collecting. But I, I was figuring it out back then. [00:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's nice. You don't have to like hike out miles and miles, you know, kind of thing. You can just kind of pull your fart up. It's like the guy who led the trip, he goes, well, half the time he goes, I just drive my truck out there and hook my truck up to a juniper and just pluck it out of the ground. [00:10:45] Speaker A: Really? [00:10:46] Speaker B: I'm going to do that. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:48] Speaker B: It works for him though. That's awesome. I was like, how's your trees doing? [00:10:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:52] Speaker B: He goes, they're all live better than I could say. [00:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. I feel like the trouble that I had in the White Mountains was that things were not really. They didn't have the best root system. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:06] Speaker A: It was hard to find things with good root system. So I found a few trees and I would. But I would only collect things that I knew I could collect with a lot of roots. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:16] Speaker A: And I don't like collecting there because I think it's just too challenging and it's too much work too. It's so hard to tree all the. [00:11:24] Speaker B: Rocks in the ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You like need a rock chisel, which I didn't have, so. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Although I heard that there's some areas where it's like pure pumice and it's much easier to collect. [00:11:36] Speaker B: Oh, that's what the lodge poles were like up in the top of what's that it's top of the end. Yeah. I mean, that. That was like, the easiest. I mean, I've dug trees out of the backyard that were more challenging to dig up. [00:11:53] Speaker A: Really? [00:11:53] Speaker B: It was. You could like, literally just, like, almost stick your shovel in if you had, like, one of those root slayers. [00:11:59] Speaker A: And. Yeah. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Draw a circle around. You just pop the pin right out. [00:12:03] Speaker A: That's cool. [00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah, those. They're lodgepole. So I was selling Travis. I think it'd be cool because a lot of those trees are pretty similar. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:13] Speaker A: They're kind of skinny, tall, have some interesting movement. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:17] Speaker A: Nothing like mind blowing. [00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:20] Speaker A: But I was thinking, like, a forest composition could be really cool. [00:12:23] Speaker B: That would be really cool if you. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Found the right one to put them together. [00:12:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Travis and I were talking too, that. That those would be really cool to collect for, like, landscape trees. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Definitely. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Because you can dig them up really easily and they're. I mean, there's ones that are, you know, knee high to 20ft tall. [00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:44] Speaker B: And, you know, if you could get, you know, a pretty decent sized one and stuff like that, you could totally pop it out. I might want to plant it in pungus and do the normal thing before you pop it in the ground. Especially a place like Sacramento where it's so hot. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Yeah. They were super easy to collect, but, yeah, that's kind of the thing. It's like, you know, you're looking out at this, it's kind of like a field of them, Thousands of them. They all look very, very similar. And so it's kind of like other. Yeah. All skinny. It's like, not twisty. They're wiggly. [00:13:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:16] Speaker B: You know, kind of thing. But yeah, the guy who led the trip, he. We met him up there, and he had already dug one up, and it was like the coolest watchable I've ever seen. It was compact and twisted, and we're like, where'd you find that one? He starts laughing about my secret spot. [00:13:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Is that Scott Chad from Lotus? [00:13:39] Speaker B: No, there's actually a club member, Paul Holtzon. [00:13:42] Speaker A: Oh, yeah? Yeah. [00:13:44] Speaker B: He's been around the block for quite a while. Yeah. [00:13:47] Speaker A: He's got some cool trees. [00:13:48] Speaker B: He does, sir. Yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker A: And he taught some stones, too. Oh, yeah? [00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah. He makes Ds and sweet. Yeah. So you can hit him up for make D and he'll make you one and awesome. Yeah, yeah. He's a great guy. [00:14:00] Speaker A: That's something I would love to do sometime. We should go sometime. [00:14:04] Speaker B: Oh, I'm super down. Yeah. [00:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:06] Speaker B: That'd be a lot of fun. I felt like looking at rocks. [00:14:09] Speaker A: Totally. Me too. Like, whenever I feel like being in the bold side, if I see trees around, even just landscape trees, I'm always checking them out. Checking out the trunks. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Looking at, like the fruit that they have, wondering if it'd be a good species for bonsai. And then with suri seki, I'm not as bad, but like, I'll just like pick something up, turn it around when I'm at the beach, which is like, not the best place. Probably be collecting stones, but I think it'd be really cool to check out the Eel River. That's kind of what. Yeah. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd like to go check that out soon. I've heard that was really cool. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:41] Speaker B: Yeah. We had Samuel Edge come up in the presentation on Sinksect. [00:14:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:14:47] Speaker B: Rocks and stuff. And I mean, I think that got so many members of our club inspired to go do it. I mean, a lot of members in our club already like, collected rocks. [00:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:57] Speaker B: So. [00:14:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:58] Speaker B: Yeah. People were like, oh, here's the good spots. [00:15:02] Speaker A: Yeah, that would be fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They. They. It seems that's the spot I hear about all the time. Eel River. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Is that what you hear about too? [00:15:12] Speaker B: Yeah, he mentioned Eel river and then he said he's got a couple of other places too. Said he'd be happy to share them with me. That he brought, you know, some guys up from Japan and they were kind of like, this is a great spot. Like, you know, like you're. There's tons of stuff. Like, you know, this is better collecting than some of the places. [00:15:33] Speaker A: Wow. [00:15:34] Speaker B: I just thought it cool. [00:15:35] Speaker A: Hey. Okay. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Probably not as picked over too. You think that would be? [00:15:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I tend to really, like really dark suki and I love, like when they're really flack. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Stones, they're. They're very cool. [00:15:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they have a lot of those at Blue River. [00:15:54] Speaker C: Nice. [00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah, we went out to Cash Creek. Our club did like a little stone collecting trip and. Yeah. All month. Yeah, we went out to Cash Creek and I mean, it was like. I don't know what I was. I was expecting, you know, a creek with, you know, trees and. [00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:09] Speaker B: Rocks scattered around. I mean, this was like a field of rocks, like billions of rocks, you know, probably 20ft deep, you know, kind of thing. And we found some really cool ones out there, like Jasper and stuff like that. [00:16:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Do you have a Suiseki collection? [00:16:26] Speaker B: A small one? Yeah. I don't really have any dices made. I tried My hand at making them. I did not have the right tools. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:34] Speaker B: And it was super pain, but you totally squeaked out a couple kind of crappy ones. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. I actually have only one suiseki, and I've never gone collecting or anything like that, but I am interested, but more as just, like, nice display stuff for bonsai. Yeah, Shoot. It'd be fun to go do any javas or something. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Oh, that'd be so much fun. [00:17:00] Speaker A: Yeah, Just hike around and explore. I like. I enjoy explore, but exploring a lot. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah, me too. Yeah, I was super. We should definitely plan. That'd be fun. [00:17:10] Speaker A: That'd be sweet. [00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:12] Speaker A: Cool. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:13] Speaker A: So, what. Or actually, like, how often are you working with Peter these days? [00:17:20] Speaker B: Well, I go up and help him out mostly when he does his, like, work parties where, like, you know, be, like, Julian and Caesar and Drew and Travis and, you know, just kind of that group of guys. So we'll go up there and work on. Work on Peter's trees and stuff, and those are a ton of fun. Yeah, I mean, that's like, a couple times a year. Yeah. I think Peter's so big. I told him, you know, any. Any weekend you're up there and working need extra hand calling. So there's been times where he's like, hey, cleaning juniper trucks. You want to come help scrape some bark for a while? [00:17:52] Speaker A: You know? Nice. Yeah, nice. [00:17:54] Speaker B: So, I mean, I'll. I'll get up there any chance I get. Yeah. [00:17:58] Speaker A: What. What drew you to wanting to work under Peter? [00:18:02] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I think he. Looking at his trees, especially the first time after, like, going up, I knew he was, you know, great practitioner and a good artist and all that stuff. You know, his trees are great. And then I remember going up to his garden and being like, holy cow. Like, this is another level. You know, I've been to a couple other gardens and stuff like that, but this is just, you know, like, nothing I've seen. And so I was like, okay, if I could do something even remotely close to this, that would be, like, amazing. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:36] Speaker B: So I really kind of, you know, it's like, all right, it's close. You know, I think proximity played a big part of it. But also. Yeah, his skill level is just kind of. Kind of unmatched. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker B: You know, you know, especially from what I've seen in the U.S. you know, you go to the expo, you can point out his trees. Like, that's the tree he worked on. Got keep stationary, jump out. [00:19:00] Speaker A: That would be the Kind of transportation. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Method where I'm sitting and it's moving me. Yeah. [00:19:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So some. Someone downstairs asked me like, why do you like working with Peter? What should I know? Actually, there's a. There's a gentleman downstairs who is going to be working with Peter, I think in a couple of days for the first time. And he was just like, what do I need to know about Peter? [00:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:33] Speaker A: And I was like, well, I mean, he's very, very high level. [00:19:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:37] Speaker A: It's almost like he's surgical in nature. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Very precise. And he holds an extremely high standard. [00:19:48] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:48] Speaker A: And I was explaining one thing that I like about Peter is he kind of like whips my ass into shape and makes. Makes me do things that are like. He doesn't take any BS for me, but I'll be like, oh, it's fine. You know, like, I just do the thing. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah, why don't you just do it? [00:20:07] Speaker A: I'm so precise. [00:20:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:09] Speaker A: And so hardcore about everything and everything. He wants everything perfect when it comes to bonsai. And I love that about him. Yeah. And I aspire to be there. And just being around him brings everybody up to a higher level that spends time with him. [00:20:25] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. And then too, like, he's so. He's such like a. Like a good dude. He's nice. He's easy to talk to. He doesn't have, like, you know, an air about himself or, you know, he's humble. But. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's. It's easy to work with them. [00:20:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I also think he's kind of picky when he comes to the people that he surrounds himself with. [00:20:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:49] Speaker A: And so I think, you know, you have spent a lot of time with him. He trusts you for good reason. And I think. I think that you are just like a really good person and senses that. He senses that quickly. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:06] Speaker A: And you have good intention. And you're very intelligent and skilled when it comes to inside, which I think really cool. [00:21:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:12] Speaker A: So he's kind of. We've kind of like built this little crew under Peter. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:21:18] Speaker A: And it's pretty cool. [00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah, It's. It's a lot of fun. It's like, always good group of people up there. You know, we all. It's just fun. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Totally. [00:21:28] Speaker B: You know, kind of thing. I've definitely been in, you know, groups, not necessarily with, like, bonsai, but like, other things where you're kind of like, you know, that guy, you know, he's kind of annoying, you know, whatever. But. Yeah. Yeah. The group of. Group of people up With Peter is just. It's always just like a ton of fun. [00:21:45] Speaker A: For sure. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Even we'll be sitting there, you know, repotting 20 trees in a day, you know, just banging them out, but we're all laughing and, you know, kind of thing, like. [00:21:54] Speaker A: For sure. Yeah, for sure. [00:21:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And, yeah, this whole. This weekend has been really cool. Yeah, last night was fun. [00:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:03] Speaker A: Like, Caesar is so fun to hang out with. Such a funny guy. And Kenny is great, too. Always a good time. [00:22:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:14] Speaker A: And I think everyone kind of just. They kind of. We're kind of like Peter's entourage, like his little, like, groupies or something. But I'm cool with it because everyone is really cool. [00:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:26] Speaker A: We have a great time together. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:28] Speaker A: And it's fun. So. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like we work hard and we play hard, you know, kind of thing and. [00:22:34] Speaker A: For sure. [00:22:35] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Tell me what lessons maybe did or what kind of knowledge has Peter dropped on you? Whatever comes to mind. [00:22:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, like, kind of how to build trees. I think that's something that he really kind of focuses on. It's not, you know, I'm not making, you know, I'm not taking what's here and working with it and, you know, twisting things around and, you know, bringing a branch from the back to the front and dropping it down 4 inches so it fills in this space. He's like, no, we're going to make sure. We're going to graft to get a branch there. We're going to, you know, start graph. We'll do what we need to do. We'll cut. Cut everything off this tree back to the trunk and start it over, if that's what needs to be done. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:24] Speaker B: And so I really like that because I've found that I see that in other trees when I'm looking at them. You know, you'll say, oh, that branch is coming from the back. Like, yeah, still a nice tree, but, you know, kind of thing. And then, like, also, too, like, how. I mean, kind of along the same lines of, like, the building trees. Like, really, how do you start with Especially, like, deciduous and, like, the, like, cutting the top and, like, he always looks like you're kind of a slave to your bottom branches and pull their thickness for sure, and doing what you want. And then that's when you made me worry about the top and Middle East. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:02] Speaker B: And that really kind of was like an aha way of, like, how do I. Like, I know the bottom branches need to be thick. You know, I can't grow it out too far, because what about the top? And, you know, do I have to grow the top? And it's like, no. Or, you know, I'm starting, I need a new plant, I have to regrow a branch at the bottom. It's like, well, you got to cut the whole topic. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:25] Speaker B: You know, kind of thing. You just gotta. Gotta do it because it's not gonna grow. [00:24:30] Speaker A: Yes. You know, 100%. Yeah. No, that was really a big aha concept for me. So creative regarding the bottom branch notes. Yeah. And why. Why, in your opinion, is that? Why do you have to keep the top at bay? [00:24:49] Speaker B: Well, it's. Well, I think, like, you know, he kind of says you don't want to, like, shade it out. You want to make sure that branches that you're trying to grow get enough sun, get enough light, get enough air, and then also too, like, just naturally, with how trees grow, the top is strong. [00:25:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:07] Speaker B: So if I'm really trying to pump something up at the bottom, I can't have my top weed blown out too, because it's going to be kind of the energy, it's kind of got all over the place. You really just wanted. And really focusing on these spots. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so I guess this whole concept, which I think is extremely important, I think a lot of people don't understand that concept. You got to build your lower branches first, get the right thickness before you start building your top. [00:25:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:38] Speaker A: I feel like that's for apically dominant trees, which is the majority of trees, other than, like, shrubs, would not be dominant at the top. [00:25:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:49] Speaker A: So it'd be kind of vice versa there. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:52] Speaker A: Yes, definitely. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I also, too, like, kind of with developing the deciduous, you know, we always hear like, well, you want to go from 1 to 2, 2 to 4, 4 to 16, or 4 to 8, 8 to 16, kind of like that. And he's like, well, don't worry about that right now. You know, just cut the top back. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:10] Speaker B: You know, cut it short. Give that energy to the lower branches, you know, and we use what we get, the pa, you know, kind of thing. Go back later when we're worried about the top. We'll worry about the top thing and making sure everything's, you know, right laid out. [00:26:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Kind of stuff. [00:26:28] Speaker A: Oh, most definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. That's all awesome. And then. Yeah. Going back to your initial point about structure and building the bulk of the tree first, I think that's the right way to do it. Oh, yeah. And it sets the tree up for success down the road. Very. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Which is great. You're not a lot of like, oh, well, you know, it's been like this for five years and now I have to, you know, go back because now this branch is too leggy or, you know, now the canopy's gotten wide and you can see how skinny this branch is. [00:27:08] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Trying to get to the. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Oh, do you are like, what is. What do you imagine in the future of bonsai for you? What does that look like? [00:27:25] Speaker B: Well, I'd like to. I'd like to do more of it, maybe like a part time professionally, you know, do workshops and that kind of stuff. I'm definitely trying to start like growing some trunks in my backyard. I have a good amount of space, so figure, why not grow some cool trunks. [00:27:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:44] Speaker B: So I've got a bunch of trident maples, I've got some cork oaks and came across a whole bunch of beauty barrier cuttings over the last year. So I have all these beauty berries, not that I'm going to put in the ground and get them, try to get them as thick as I can. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Those are purple berries. [00:28:01] Speaker B: Yeah, the little purple berries. Yeah, I heard they. Peter was saying that they don't thicken up very quick. So these are pretty decent size, you know, maybe pinky to thumb size thickness, which is pretty fairly decent, I think for the beauty berry from what I've heard. I don't know. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Asking about them necessarily, but. But I'd like to. Yeah. Get the little mini retirement fund, you know. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:25] Speaker B: When I retire I'll dig them up and start selling them and. And that kind of stuff. But I've noticed from like working with Peter and then helping out the club with the beginner workshop is there's like a kind of a huge gap in between. You know, I'm going to the beginner club workshop with the stick that I bought at the garden center versus I need to hire someone like Peter to, you know, really dial my tree in. [00:28:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:53] Speaker B: You know, and so I think it'd be kind of be an interesting, you know, role to kind of fill that kind of gap, you know, teaching people, you know, kind of what to look for in material. Because I think that's really hard, especially when you're first starting off, you know, like what makes something worth buying for sure. And what's the price point that it's worth buying at, you know? [00:29:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think to fill that, that gap, like anyone that has learned from Peter more, anyone that's studied in Japan For a significant amount of time or. [00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:27] Speaker A: Really taken bonsai very seriously and has the ability to do the basics. [00:29:35] Speaker C: Well. [00:29:36] Speaker A: I feel like that's very much needed in our club scene. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:42] Speaker A: By people that are interested in bonsai, but maybe don't want to spend like crazy amounts of money on it. I totally agree. There's definitely a gap there. [00:29:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And then it's also too like. I mean, from doing that like beginner workshop thing like you. There definitely is the people who are like, yeah, I just want something pretty to look at when I go into my backyard. Like, you know, and yes. This little thing that I cut. I cut on every couple weeks or whatever. And then there are people who are serious and they're like, oh, I'd like to, you know, put this in a show or I want this to be, you know, I'd like to have a tree in the PBE one day. And it's like, okay, okay. You need to get serious and start, you know, hitting the books and. [00:30:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:23] Speaker B: You know, kind of thing. And. And really, you know, committing time and stuff to this hockey. Because it's not just something you can just kind of do passively. [00:30:32] Speaker A: For sure. For sure. Yeah. No, completely agree. I. And I do think bonsai should be for everybody. Oh yeah. Anyone that wants to get into it. You don't have to be super hardcore. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:43] Speaker A: About it. [00:30:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:44] Speaker A: But it's also. I do like, personally, I'm very hardcore. [00:30:47] Speaker B: You're hardcore. [00:30:50] Speaker A: And. But I think, yeah, like, any level is cool and we could use some people in that middle section. It's interesting that you point that out. I guess question for you is if someone does come to you with a stick in a pot. [00:31:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:08] Speaker A: Which is a common beginner type thing, like what. What do you recommend? [00:31:12] Speaker B: Well, so my first kind of question is like, what are you trying to get out of this? Or what do you want this tree to be? You know, do you want it. Do you want it to look like, you know, the trees in the Kokufu books? If that's the case, you gotta, you know, plant it in the ground and forget about it for 10 years. Which was kind of like the line that really hooked me into doing books. [00:31:33] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:31:33] Speaker B: For some reason that was like the. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Thing you like torturing yourself. [00:31:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went and bought a. Yeah. This is a little like stick of a Japanese maple. And I was all excited about it, you know, bought the cheap little then garden soil. And first thing I did when I got home. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Middle of July and sitting There looking at it and I'm like, cream this off, cut that. And then I remember it was, you. [00:32:06] Speaker A: Know, like, I don't. How come, you know, Japanese micro bonsai. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Looking at these, like, huge trunks and just massive brute sprayed and stuff. Well, how. How do I do. How do I turn this into that? [00:32:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:18] Speaker B: And I think I came across the, like, bonsai nut for someone, you know, asked, how do I. How do I dick in this trunk? And someone said, oh, you plant it in the ground and forget about it for five years and cut it back to a stub and repeat. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:33] Speaker B: You know, in about 20 years, you'll have a nice start, you know. And I was like, oh, I'm getting into this. Which makes this so funny to me, you know, looking back on, like, why is that? But, yeah, so, I mean, when it comes to people who bring in the sticks, you know, I'm like, do you just want something nice to look at? Are you not super serious about this? Like, you know, if you want a hobby, you want something to do it at night when you're watching TV and you're bored. Something like that. So kind of from there, I'll kind of figure out what they want. [00:33:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Then. [00:33:05] Speaker B: And then if they are like, no, I want. I want this cutting to be in the bonsai explains, you know. Well, all right. It's a long road, you know, maybe consider spending a little bit more. Anything if you hold it. If you've got the funds that's, you know, near completion. Or, you know, call Peter. I'm sure he's got something up there. And I'm going to be spent. I spend some money, but it'll be worth it. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:36] Speaker B: So I've had one woman who needed to come over. She couldn't make it to the. To the beginner classes, and so she hired me to come over, help her with. She had a little crepe myrtle and all of it from us. I mean, it's exactly what you would think. You know, I picked these up at, you know, he's in the bonsai section at Green Acres Nursery and, you know, kind of thing. And so I was like, do you just want kind of something to play with? Yeah, you know, not too sure. All right, great. [00:34:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Throw some wire on here. Get some. Get some wiggles in the branches and nice, you know, you'll be off, you know, kind of thing. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, got it, got it. Yeah. I think that's great. And every, like, there's just different levels with multi. Yeah. A lot of times I. I like thinking about growing trees to the next size or thickening the trunk. [00:34:27] Speaker B: Yep. [00:34:29] Speaker A: And I think that's always a fun project to work on, but then it's. If you have too many projects, you. You don't have anything pretty to look at. So there's a balance there for sure. [00:34:40] Speaker B: Exactly. And kind of like how my guard is right now. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:44] Speaker B: I'm like, everything's kind of in this, like, project phase, or I've cut everything off, or I'm waiting for something to do something, and. [00:34:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:51] Speaker B: You know, and then it's also like, well, I should actually probably just sell everything that I have, or most of it, you know, and then it's like, I don't want to sell that one because that one was like, you know, that was like a stick when I first got it. It's pretty chunky now, you know, kind of thing, like, for sure. And get that attachment to them. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Yeah. How many trees would you say you have or projects I have, like, I would say that. [00:35:14] Speaker B: I think there's like 50 on my benches. 52. [00:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:18] Speaker B: Somewhere around there. And then I kind of have this space behind where my trees are that I have a bunch of stuff on the ground. A lot of those are cuttings or seedlings I'm going to plant in the ground. So including those, probably like, 150, 200 total. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Nice. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Very cool. [00:35:38] Speaker B: I try to keep it manageable because I was definitely at one point where I have, like, you know, 400 plants. [00:35:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Pots. [00:35:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:45] Speaker B: I was like, I. Yeah. Forgetting about wire or anything. You know, that's all those things are hurdled. Yeah. [00:35:52] Speaker A: You know, I think one of the things that one concept that I've really realized, and I do way better. I do well with concepts into, like, a. A general concept that I've discovered, is that I think when it comes to bonsai in every way, coing your collection is always a good thing. [00:36:12] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:13] Speaker A: So whether that's your final industry. How are you doing? Yeah. So calling your collection. So either, like, your finished trees, you should be. You know, you should pick a number in your head. Like, for me, my number is about 20 trees, give or take, plus or minus a few. That's in my final bonsai collection. And so I'm. If I'm gonna. If I'm at 19 trees, I can add one. [00:36:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:48] Speaker A: You know, if I'm. If I go above that, I gotta get rid of some. I'm at a stage now where if I buy a tree, I gotta get rid of a tree. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:56] Speaker A: And then I even think, like, you're even growing stock. You should be calling stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, if you want to go with 10 Japanese maples that you're growing from cutting, start with 100 and then cool down to, like, 25. [00:37:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:14] Speaker A: And then wait a little while, a couple of years, and then cool down a little more. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:18] Speaker A: And then go with those. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:20] Speaker A: And I think you'll have a much better end result with a much higher number and cool down. [00:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I've been. I've been trying to get better by being able to just kind of get rid of stuff. And since, like, the past. Since I've been going up and, like, working on, like, Peter's trees. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:37] Speaker B: It's. It's much easier for me to be Getting rid of that. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:41] Speaker B: Getting rid of that, you know, kind of thing. So that's what. Yeah. I think I'd like to have, like, 25 to 30 trees total. But I want the bigger ones and the ones that I have because I have a lot of smaller ones. And, you know, I think a lot of people start off with, like, smaller trees when they first kind of get into it, and they don't realize how challenging that can be. [00:38:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:02] Speaker B: And I'm not like, anyone who's got, like, you know, I'm like, specifically into shell heat or anything like that. For sure. It's a big trees, you know. [00:38:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:10] Speaker B: That's what. That's what everyone, like, club boys, laughs, and they're like, you still have a good back. You should get some big trees. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. [00:38:16] Speaker B: I still can't. And so. Yeah, so that's what I'd like to do. Kind of get rid of what I have, you know, I have my, you know, maybe 10 that I'm like, I'm not. Not gonna get rid of these Amber and the rest of them. Well, I'll work on it for another year or two, and I could probably get, like, another 100 bucks out of 200 bucks out of it. [00:38:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:37] Speaker B: And then that end of itself is obviously then you're like, well, I can later. Four years, a hundred dollars, you know, kind of thing. It's just like, I just got a gearboard. I'm sick a lot. [00:38:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Exactly. Yeah. And it's a slippery slip right there. [00:38:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:55] Speaker A: And then. [00:38:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I like selling them at, like, the. The club sales and stuff, too, because a lot of times I'll see them. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:02] Speaker B: You know, they kind of come back. [00:39:03] Speaker A: To the workshops, and I'm like, yeah, oh, yeah. [00:39:07] Speaker B: Let's work on this, you know, kind of thing. I'm like, oh, this looks great now, you know? [00:39:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Wanted to stay around. Yeah. That's another big benefit of being in a club, I guess, being able to sell your trees more easily. [00:39:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:35] Speaker A: And. And then also that's cool that you get to see them, I guess. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:40] Speaker A: Yeah. That's one. One reason why I like to sell trees through Peter. So, like, I have Peter sell some of my trees kind of on consignment. And, like, I just saw there was a Sierra juniper that I really liked, but I have too many trees, so I had to get rid of it and. [00:40:03] Speaker B: Oh, was it Tony who was showing you the. [00:40:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, Tony bought it. Mm. So, yeah, that's. [00:40:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's super cool. Yeah. [00:40:10] Speaker A: He was showing me a picture. He's like, look, it's all grafted now. And I'm like, oh, that's so cool. Yeah. [00:40:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that's cool. [00:40:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:16] Speaker A: So I know. [00:40:17] Speaker B: That's another thing that I like, that Peter does the grafting. And then I think it was. Yeah, it was on your podcast where he's kind of talking about his reasoning behind it. [00:40:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:27] Speaker B: I was like, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. [00:40:29] Speaker A: For sure. [00:40:30] Speaker B: And then I've heard, like, Mike Pestell has mentioned, like, that a lot of the. The guys, when he was starting off, were all telling his craft the trees. Just craft them. Because in 20 years, you're going to be mad that you didn't. And he's like, sure enough, yeah, here I am mad that I didn't. [00:40:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, that's. That's an interesting one. I go back and forth. I mean, like, generally speaking, I like to graft my junipers. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:56] Speaker A: With. But I think it would be so cool to get, like, a native Sierra that has tight, little dense foliage. Who knows if it's out there. Come. But, yeah, I think Peter made some really good points in that podcast, and it makes me lean towards wanting to have a lot of my trees crafted. Yeah, for sure. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's kind of like, you know, I mean, similar to kind of what he said, like. Yeah, if you have a native foliage and it works and it does what you want it to do and it stays tight and you're not having to rebuild branches every five years. Keep it. [00:41:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:35] Speaker B: Why would you not? You know? But, yeah, other than that, you're just, you know, like, I really liked his, like, you seem like the super refined native calamities. Not really. [00:41:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:46] Speaker B: You know, kind of thing. And it's like okay, yeah, the point there, if we're trying to strive to do this at a certain level, then why would we do something that fights that? [00:41:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:57] Speaker B: You know. [00:41:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it's tough because like you could make a Sierra Juniper look pretty good, but if you put it right next to one that's grafted with Ito Ogawa and it's all patterned out and perfect, it's just not quite having to continuously rebuild. I think that's really what convinced Fink is I had a Sierra Juniper that went through the cycles. [00:42:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:27] Speaker A: Because I've had it for a while now. I styled it looked really good. And then it grew out and it was just grown too far. So we couldn't keep it nice and tight, compact, closer, close to the trunk. And so we had to hack a bunch of branches off and then just look ugly for like two years. And now it's starting to look good again. Yeah. But I know I'm just going to have to go through that cycle again. And it's like if I just would have crafted this, I would have been looking good and I wouldn't have had to like go back and forth through these cycles. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [00:43:09] Speaker A: I guess one question I always like to ask is just because I like to find out what people are interested in sci related or what they think about. But is there anything that you daydream about when it comes to bonsai lately? Like anything. [00:43:24] Speaker B: I mean, I love to go collect some red boots. [00:43:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:28] Speaker B: Travis and I talk about that all the time, man. We just gotta find somewhere where we can go collect some redwoods. Yeah, that'd be a ton of fun. I love redwoods. Probably like my favorite tree to work on. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Got four of them right now. They keep me busy. Yeah. Where it's like a lot of stuff growing up let these branch get thick and you know, kind of thing. So it's nice to have something that I'm like there's always, always pinching to be done. [00:43:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Always. Shoot man, I'll buy, I'll buy some from you when you, when you. [00:44:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I guess it's just. Yeah. Where do you go do that? How do you get permission kind of thing? [00:44:08] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:44:09] Speaker A: But that's, that's harder to, to daydream for. Sure. Yeah. I hear a lot of them are underground to some degree. Have you heard of that? [00:44:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's what I've heard too. Like you kind of look for skinny trunks that are, you know, 20ft tall and then you dip down and then underneath the ground is where all the cool stuff is. And yeah, chop that trunk off. [00:44:36] Speaker A: It kind of reminds me of, like. [00:44:37] Speaker C: Similar to like what, like Caesar says. [00:44:38] Speaker B: Like when he's collecting olives. Like. [00:44:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:40] Speaker B: You just see shoots coming up out of the ground. You don't really know what's under there until you dig it up. [00:44:44] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be really fun to go collect some redwoods. [00:44:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:50] Speaker A: And, yeah, I think right now there's not that many that are being collected. I mean, Bob does a great job. He's such a legend in California bonsai or American bonsai scene. [00:45:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:04] Speaker A: He says he doesn't like to be called Redwood Bob, but I'll take that moniker. There you go. Yeah, yeah. Ah, yeah. [00:45:16] Speaker B: I know it's funny. Sometimes we'll, like, coordinate with, like, Steve Walkey and Bob Chaiman to bring people over for the clubs. And every once in a while, Bob Presswood will be on the. On the email too. So it's like, Bob, Bob. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Oh, shoot. [00:45:32] Speaker B: You know. Thanks, Bob. Yeah. [00:45:35] Speaker A: Oh, that's funny. It's the other show for Nissan Week, but it's not this side. What is it? So you're one of the exhibitors downstairs. Yes. Which tree was yours? I had the redwood. [00:45:47] Speaker B: A redwood in the middle? Yeah, yeah, but beautiful. [00:45:52] Speaker A: How old is it? You know, I don't know. You know, Julian threw out maybe 75 to 100 years. I think they said the 75 to 100 years, but I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't know. Your guess is probably better than mine. You're the most recent caretaker, though, because your name is Arch. Yes, because I talked to him, actually. He was in the front door. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said that. So he has an open. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He says that he's like, with four. Stared in bed after. Yeah, yeah. So I bought that redwood till it's collected by a guy named Bob Scheiman. Oh, yeah, yeah, we're. We're recording right now. No, you're totally good. You're totally good. I edit things out. Whatever. We. We're just recording a podcast right now. Okay. Yeah, you might be in it, but yeah, Bonsai or about bonsai. Yep, yep. Nice, nice. Yeah, yeah. Are you into bonsai yourself? [00:46:58] Speaker C: I just like to visit them and. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Nice. They're much more work than I'm ready for. Yeah, for sure. They totally are. The red one is huge. It must be very heavy to prune. It's. It takes. It must be very heavy. Yes, it is. It's quite a challenge. It's Quite a challenge just to prune the foliage all the time. I have to do it like every four weeks. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:19] Speaker A: Well, I'll tell you, it's memorable because. [00:47:21] Speaker B: This woman, she like. She, like, stooped underneath it to take a shot. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Ah, that's. [00:47:26] Speaker B: She like. [00:47:27] Speaker A: She stepped. She stepped back into the crowd. I'm so. I got to step back as she was stepping under me, but yeah, okay. Probably seen a few months, but thank you. No worries. No worries. Yeah, that's funny. We're talking about records. [00:47:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:49] Speaker A: Nice. These mics, they can remove a lot of the background noise. [00:47:56] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:47:57] Speaker A: And so. And through my software edit or my audio editing software, it, like really removes the background noise. So it's. The hard part is you probably won't hear him at all. [00:48:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:48:08] Speaker A: So I'll probably cut all that, but I don't. Nice. [00:48:13] Speaker B: It's funny. [00:48:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Sweet, sweet. So we were talking about redwoods. Redwoods, that would be sick. I hear a lot of them are, like, on old fire roads. I mean, that's what I've heard. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:26] Speaker A: I have no idea if that's true or not. [00:48:28] Speaker B: That's what I've heard too. [00:48:30] Speaker C: I. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Your guess probably as good as mine on that. Yeah. [00:48:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that would make sense. I wonder what beats them up. [00:48:39] Speaker B: So I've heard it's them, like, making the roads. So I think when they were making the logging roads and kind of just come through with chainsaws, cut things down at the base and then just kind of roll over bulldozers and scrape stuff. [00:48:56] Speaker A: Up and that would make sense. [00:48:59] Speaker B: I mean, you know how redwoods grow. It's like cut the top off and all of a sudden you've got, you know, five new trees growing out of it. That's why I think some of them are super big and gnarly and stuff like that underneath the ground. [00:49:11] Speaker A: For sure. [00:49:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I wonder. Or. Yeah. Just in general, I think when I think about collecting, I'm always wondering what is the situation out in the natural environment or in the wild that keeps the tree naturally dwarfed? [00:49:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Is it a rock pocket? Is it. Have you heard of the fin? [00:49:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:40] Speaker A: Is it a fin? [00:49:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Are you talking about like, the fins on the. The juniper? [00:49:44] Speaker A: Oh, so there's. There's a thing. And I don't know exactly. It's like an area that they collect Colorado blue spruce from. [00:49:54] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:49:55] Speaker A: And it's something about like an a. I'm going to do a horrible job explaining this, but essentially it is like a underground river that freezes and shears off the roots so that they can never go too deep, essentially in the winter. Yeah. So it keeps trees naturally dwarfed. [00:50:16] Speaker B: Oh, that's cool. [00:50:17] Speaker A: And I think that some of the most famous and iconic Colorado blue spruce that have been collected have been collected out of this area called the Finn, which I have no idea where it is. Yeah, there. Stairs over here. Okay, thank you. That's super cool. [00:50:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I hadn't heard of that. Okay. But that, I mean, that makes sense. [00:50:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And so I got to think that are we going to get to the 4th of May or we need to take the elevator. Yep. You can. Yeah. So, yeah, I think any really good yamadori, like there's something that is beating the tree up or keeping it dwarf, Whether it's a rock pocket where the, the roots just can't run or it's cows eating the trees or it's like, I don't know, some weird soil type. Like, I know Bob Scheiman's Mendocino coast, Cyprus. [00:51:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Those forests, they call it. [00:51:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's just because the soil conditions are so poor there that it keeps the trees naturally dwarf. So I think, like, finding those types of situations are good for questing trees often. [00:51:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's like when Travis and I have gone to a place down in Cloverdale for oaks, there you can tell there's nothing like that that is, you know, exerting any type of like, force or anything on the trees. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:54] Speaker B: And so it's like, you know, we kind of like joked around. We found like a couple of. Couple of good ones, but it's like, well, we're kind of like either 20 years too early or 20 years too late. [00:52:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:05] Speaker B: Because the ones we found, it's like just that, like, perfect point in its life where it's getting bigger, but it's not like a full blown, like, tree that you're, you know, digging up. [00:52:16] Speaker A: Yeah, so totally. Yeah. That I think that's a common issue. However, I do think. Here's my thoughts with oaks. [00:52:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:24] Speaker A: Okay. So if you can find anything that is an old oak and it has a low, ideally like multiple splits, but essentially, let's say you have like a thick trunk. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Yep. [00:52:36] Speaker A: And then maybe have some splits coming off of it. [00:52:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:39] Speaker A: Well, if you chop the oak, like, and leave some of the split, then you can use that and grow thicken branches coming off those two sweats. Now, so if you go from one main trunk to two secondary branches, or what will become primary, like, kind of trunkish things, you can make a true Oak style. Bullseye. But it's going to be a long term project because you have to thicken things like crazy. [00:53:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:08] Speaker A: But at least that could be a cool kind of middle ground. [00:53:12] Speaker B: Oh yeah, totally. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:14] Speaker A: Hard to find stuff like that. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you got to catch it in the like three to four year period where it's, you know, kind of like that. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah, totally. [00:53:24] Speaker B: Yeah. That's what. Yeah, we, we found a couple that, you know, were real tall, but they were, you know, skinny enough to be chunky bonsai but not like too big of a tree to dig up. [00:53:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:37] Speaker B: You know, kind of thing. And so, you know, they got growth at near the bottom, swap it up, loft the top off and you know, you're kind of big. [00:53:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's so. [00:53:47] Speaker B: It's pretty good. Yeah. [00:53:48] Speaker A: Awesome. [00:53:49] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, we got one with him. We just ripped it. Basically just ripped it out of the ground. We, I mean we dug around it and stuff and then it had a bunch of little sprouts and stuff near the base and so we cut the whole top off and he was like, yeah, like three weeks later, that thing had blown out tons of new branches all over the trunk. [00:54:09] Speaker A: And. [00:54:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's. It's up at Peter's. It's pretty, it's pretty cool. [00:54:12] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. [00:54:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to check it out. The dogs displayed here. They say fifth floor is dogs. [00:54:19] Speaker B: No, I think they closed that part already. Oh, it was on the same side as like the elevator. It was on this side. [00:54:29] Speaker A: Cool. Well, I think we should get back down pretty soon. Yeah. But really quick. If you just have a quick sec, I just wanted to ask kind of your overall thoughts on the show as well as the John Naka Memorial Show. And then before that, what is just so people can find out more about you. What's your Instagram way to find out more about Jeff? [00:54:49] Speaker B: Yeah, my Instagram is Bonsai Bob. It's bonsai underscore, Bob. Underscore. [00:54:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:56] Speaker B: And I post my trees I'm working on and that kind of stuff on. On there and kind of other fun bones art related stuff. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Awesome. [00:55:04] Speaker B: Post my dogs on there sometimes. [00:55:06] Speaker A: So. [00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:07] Speaker A: Nice. Yeah. [00:55:07] Speaker B: That's the best way to check me out and stuff. Yeah, I mean I think the, you know, tooling's did a great job show. You know, it's. I've seen. This is my first time coming to. I've seen videos from past years that people put on YouTube and I think this is definitely like, you know, a notch or 2 or 3 or 4 above what it's been. Yeah, you know, I think, you know, Julian's got a great eye. He's skilled, you know, bonsai practitioner and stuff. And, you know, I think he did a. Did a great job. Excited to see kind of where it goes and what he does with it. The future. [00:55:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:41] Speaker B: Excuse me. [00:55:43] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, me too. And I think they're. They're very lucky to have him down here. So south. Yeah. Very talented individual and he did a lot of hard work for the. For. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker A: Cool, man. Well, hey, it's been so awesome hanging out with you again. I really, really enjoy it every single time. Let's go, let's go. Suiseki collecting. Maybe street collecting some kind. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Oh, I'm super down. [00:56:06] Speaker A: And now let's go help Peter load up the van. [00:56:10] Speaker C: All right. [00:56:11] Speaker B: Thanks, dude. Yeah, man. [00:56:12] Speaker A: Than it. [00:56:17] Speaker C: We're kind of in a hallway also. [00:56:22] Speaker A: My first hallway podcast, for sure. Cool. Well, yeah, so I don't know, I'm curious to get like a life update from you. What's been going on over the past, like three, four months for you? Where's. Where's your time been? [00:56:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, of course I've been like, highly invested in like, my bonsai work and business and which entails a little bit of travel work, but still the majority of my client base is in like, LA and Southern California. I travel once a month for the Fresno Collection and then three times a year for the Des Moines Botanical Garden. So do some work with public collections. Otherwise just like, very busy. The thing I kind of learned now from. Well, now I've been doing bonsai full time for three years, is that it's not just your direct working time that's translating to your income. There's a lot of downtime. You factor your travel, the time to process your business, advertise your work. You need to accommodate and work with your clients. There's a lot of communication and dialogue, and these things consume massive amounts of time. And so definitely work wise, which is both good and bad. I'm grateful to have a lot of work, but then it's like, definitely I can feel. It's like the intensity is more in terms of my time commitment, I guess outside of strictly my bonsai work. I've been, of course, involved in the exhibition we're at today, the NACA Memorial exhibit, which is an old historical exhibit for the bonsai community held well over 40 years at this venue, of course, from its namesake. It originally was John Naka show, and of course his Original study group. And John Knock himself has long since passed for many decades. So this is more of just a continuation of legacy. And maybe some trees could be his student trees and so forth. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Actually before we get too far into that, because I definitely want to ask you about the show and it looks absolutely stunning by the way. You did a fantastic job on it. [00:58:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:46] Speaker A: But just going back a little bit. So I had a few follow up questions for you. [00:58:51] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:58:52] Speaker A: Do you have any official title with the collections that you work with? [00:58:56] Speaker C: So they usually just refer to me as a visiting curator or professional advisor, something because in the sense I'm not a true curator. I'm not able to be there full time. And we know the scope of bonsai work is not just this thing you can accomplish and limit it these intervals. You know, somebody has to be there to see the day to day stuff. [00:59:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:21] Speaker C: And so more I have a relationship with say the curator staff, employees and try to facilitate their work or help train the volunteers just to improve the overall management and quality. [00:59:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, Tony and I, who is displaying a couple trees. [00:59:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:42] Speaker A: One of Peter's clients and friends. [00:59:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:45] Speaker A: We were getting into a interesting conversation the other day just about how we wish there was more funding for our public collections in general. [00:59:54] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah, that's a. Actually really tricky part. And in all the public collections I'm involved in. Yeah, they, they have that dilemma. And, and it's. You're trying to make an appeal not to necessarily the immediate bullseye community, but you, you need to show justification to the general public, like what is the perceived value of bonsai? And make a case for somebody who may be a potential donor or supporter. And so not necessarily from the pure practitioner mindset, but how can somebody from the general public appreciate that? And, and definitely it's, it's not easy. Right. The process of like, like soliciting the collection, finding donors. Oh yeah, some stuff. Maybe you look for private donors like say like the Fresno collection. I can't remember. But there is a measure that was passed in the city of Fresno that's basically allocating some of the tax funds for like cultural and city community developments. And I think the collection qualified for some of that. So as yet to be seen how much money that can actually fund the collection. But for the future, you know, like some of these older collections, it's basically all volunteer run and people very generously like donate their time and support it. And that kind of like prior older demographic that's like the core of those collections just like with everybody not going to live forever, and it's not easy to find people who will fulfill those roles for little to no money. [01:01:38] Speaker B: Right. [01:01:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:38] Speaker C: And. And so funding is. Is huge. [01:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:01:42] Speaker C: You have to get funding. [01:01:43] Speaker A: Yeah. The, the collections that we have, I feel like we are blessed to have them. [01:01:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:49] Speaker A: And I, I love them and I think that they are so important for spreading the good word of bonsai. [01:01:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:01:56] Speaker A: But at the same time, I want to make sure that the high quality trees that are there really get the care and attention that they deserve from someone like you. [01:02:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:05] Speaker A: A professional, which is what they deserve. And not to discount any of the volunteers there. [01:02:10] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. [01:02:11] Speaker A: That's extremely important as well. [01:02:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:14] Speaker A: But I would love if we could create some type of endowment fund or something where the collection could live off of interest made each year. [01:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:25] Speaker A: And be well supported financially so that they could hire people to really do the trees justice. [01:02:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:32] Speaker A: That they deserve. [01:02:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely. Yeah. That. I mean, it would be great to. To have that rolling and be more robust stuff like our local collection here at Huntington. Right. It's. It's there. They do have an endowment, actually, but they are. A lot of the trees actually are quote unquote, permanent trees with the Huntington. Right. So they're already supported by that collection and institution. There are some collections like that out there that's well integrated with the Botanic Gardens. And so it's like a broader organization. And so collections like that, it's actually, they should have some funding and sustainability. It's more internally how they discern to do that, like management. But then for smaller collections, then that's more on up to them on their own to. To figure out how do we procure money, sustain the collection. [01:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:30] Speaker C: And of course there's this huge time continuity aspect that. To progress the trees like higher by high, like year by year. I mean, it's. It's not. The work is good here and there. There's this continuous like dedication of work. So they get better over time. And of course, don't discredit volunteers or any curators. They do a lot of work. For sure. It's a hard job. [01:03:55] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well tell. You know, I can edit any of this out, but let me. Or I was gonna jump into the show. Do you want. [01:04:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, we talked. Anything. Yeah, yeah. [01:04:08] Speaker A: Would you tell me a little bit about the history of this show? [01:04:12] Speaker C: Yeah. So this show originally actually was called the Non Fukai exhibition, which. Non Fukai was John Naka's study group and his like students and. And other like teachers he's kind of like, like brought into his group and kind of. They went on and teach other people as well. And so initially it was only members of that group that could exhibit trees and it was called the Nan Fukai exhibit. Until more recently, I think. [01:04:45] Speaker A: Not. [01:04:45] Speaker C: Not for sure. I can't remember like four years ago they changed it. Yeah, of course, Non Phukai, like it's the. The study group doesn't exist anymore. Okay. There may still be some. I know there. There are still like former members who are alive, but. But essentially the show got rebranded, right. As this more Memorial legacy exhibit. [01:05:09] Speaker A: So Michael Roberts was telling me yesterday that Nan Pukai was very hard to get into. It was very selected and it was like the top SoCal bonsai members. [01:05:20] Speaker C: Right? Yeah, so that's. That's exactly right. And so they were very. I don't know how to say, but trying to say the right way to say. Yeah, it was more inclusive for sure. And of course this like, predates my time in Bonsai, so I don't know like the. How things were done then or any of the dynamics behind that, but definitely it was very exclusive and operating within their own like group and community. I. I did see from prior they had old exhibition pamphlets or magazines. They print did seem some years individually. They're like good trees there in the past. And so I think the mindset was always to have generally a better quality show. Of course, like as like people age, it's. The member base is not enough to sustain the exhibit. And I don't know when but it transitioned to kind of this like open submission show. So essentially anyone right. Can submit their tree. And well, now we have. Right. Like a jurying system. And essentially. Well, either with the jurying system now or in the past, whoever the exhibit chair was. Right. They can select from the pool of trees and. And on average the goal is to have it to be a little bit better quality. [01:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, you did a phenomenal job and I can't imagine how much work was on you. [01:06:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:56] Speaker A: And I really like. I guess I feel like I would think that John Naka, I know he's not still with us, but I think he would be very proud of you and very happy to see someone take on this, this giant project and continue with it in his name. And so mad props to you for taking it on. [01:07:18] Speaker C: Appreciate that going with it. [01:07:20] Speaker A: And you did a great job. [01:07:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:07:25] Speaker A: What I'm curious. So I know both of us started after John Naka passed away. [01:07:31] Speaker C: Yeah. So I, you know, so that's like, I have really no direct affiliation with him. And so, you know, before a lot of the, the older members for this exhibit and even like at the center here. Who helps coordinate the, a lot of these exhibits at the center? Mr. Kosaka? They, for them the heritage is really important because they're like these early gen Japanese Americans. [01:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:59] Speaker C: They've kind of seen the 40 years of history and I'm sure there's some like, hesitations where like, oh, this, this new guy is like disconnected. [01:08:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:08:11] Speaker C: From our legacy. And, and maybe in like indirect ways they, they told me that. And, and so I, I thought like, oh, you know, what is actually my attribution to the legacy. And of course I, I don't want to be overly familiar and, and kind of just recite stuff about him that I don't know or I personally don't affiliate it connected to. And so more so my, my contribution of course is to the show is still alive. Right. It's still running. And so I keep it alive and, and continue that and, and so long as that as it persists and it's within the spirit of bonsai and the quality philosophy. I, I then I felt I did my like, obligations and diligence. [01:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I feel like when we talk about legacy. [01:09:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:09:07] Speaker A: I don't think there's any bigger compliment that someone could have. I mean, if someday there was the Julian Tsai show, I think you'd be pretty happy about that. And especially if, if a new younger generation from the next generation after you and me. Yeah, I think that'd be pretty cool if there was. [01:09:26] Speaker C: And that's, you know, kind of what it is where, you know, the trees. Realistically, you know, so long as somebody's caring for it, it's just going to greatly outlive like people. Right. Yeah. And sometimes we just get like, too tied up in like our immediate ego and creates all sorts of like, conflicts or setbacks. It's, it's for the purpose of bonsai. It's not really like the big picture. And so of course we just try to do a good job and cultivate the trees and. [01:09:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:58] Speaker C: And, and if, if we always work with consideration for the future, it's just like the trees, you know, they'll be more sustainable and it shouldn't really be about yourself. Right. [01:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:09] Speaker C: Going on. [01:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah, most definitely. With all that said, what do you know about John Noka? I'm curious. I don't know all that much. [01:10:19] Speaker C: After like, totally. I like, I like don't know. Yeah, we. The history that well at all. [01:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:27] Speaker C: So I'm like not the person to ask about the legacy history in his era. Yeah. [01:10:34] Speaker A: I would love to learn more about him and I know that both of us started after John Naca passed away, unfortunately. [01:10:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:42] Speaker A: But I think all of that legacy and all that information and what he did for American Bonsai is so interesting to me. I would love to learn more. Maybe I can get someone on the podcast at some point. [01:10:54] Speaker C: I could. Well, I think Ted Matson is here, so he would be the one to ask the last exhibit chair. [01:11:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll see if I can convince him to talk to me, but I know it's super busy down there right now, so. Yeah, very cool. Well, what, what has the workload been like leading up to this point? [01:11:20] Speaker C: I mean, of course there's logistics of getting people to submit trees during the trees processing the entries. There's like supplies and materials. So like cloth, fabric, ironing and then getting dimensions of room and stuff like that. Of course on one end it's like I'm helping coordinate the exhibit, but I still have to prepare trees, say for clients or public collections and stuff. I've, you know, I offer to help transport and already that on its own is like a busy job. Right. Usually the professionals just occupied with preparing the trees transport and excluding the exhibition prep. Right. The professional's job, they. They just prepare the trees. And so it's kind of like my workload got like 2,3x right up to the show. [01:12:14] Speaker A: And how many trees did you prepare for the show? [01:12:18] Speaker C: Maybe only like really like three or four. But in. Well, I mean there's like a shohin display, but I mean those didn't need that much work right now. But then there's just like some transport stuff that I brought from like San Diego, like Fresno and. And not all of those needed to be worked on because they, they like help prepare the trees. I just help tidy stuff up and transporting it. [01:12:46] Speaker A: Well, just getting my one tree prepared took quite a few hours. [01:12:50] Speaker C: Oh yeah. [01:12:51] Speaker A: You know, so I heavily respect everything. [01:12:54] Speaker C: That you did and yeah, it's a massive amount of time. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Yes. [01:12:59] Speaker C: Gotcha. Yeah. [01:13:00] Speaker A: Cool. Well, what could you use? Like, are you planning to do this in the future? So. [01:13:09] Speaker C: Most likely, yes. But I, I definitely, I need like a core volunteer team. Ryan Pitts, he's like the exhibit co chair. I mean he's, he's helped me out a lot. He's been great and, but, but we definitely need, we need to build like a. Yeah, like it doesn't need to be a lot of people. It's not a huge exhibit, but this is just not something like I can just fully obligate on my own. I mean, a lot of this year I just built like the infrastructure, but. But I'm essentially sacrificing a lot of my personal time, which I could put like, to like, other stuff I'm like studying and working on or like, like my health and fitness and. And then. And kind of like so like I turned 29 this year. I'm still like very young, but I can just feel a little bit every year as I'm getting older, just more importance of my time value. And before I brute force things a lot. And so hard for me to say no. And the penalty of doing that, it gets harder every year. I can feel it. So it's not sustainable. So I definitely need help. And so people in the SoCal community listening to this. This is like a community event. And if the kind of mission statement and purpose of the exhibition resonates with you, contact me if you want to participate and help us with the show in the future. [01:14:45] Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome. Very cool. Yeah, let's get you some more volunteers. That's. It's not fun to take on these things alone. And it really takes a village to execute something at a high level like this. Fantastic. Fantastic. Cool. Well, it's 11:11. Are you okay? [01:15:08] Speaker C: Yeah, we're probably like, good for another like five minutes or so. [01:15:12] Speaker A: Sweet. [01:15:12] Speaker C: And then I'll start getting ready for the first dose and talk. [01:15:16] Speaker A: Okay. You know what? I could do too, but you don't have to. Yeah, I could just keep the mic on you for the docent. [01:15:24] Speaker C: Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, if you want. But I don't know, you know, like context though, right? [01:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, I could just say here's the tree and I don't know, I could look through it and see if there was any good. [01:15:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:39] Speaker A: Sound bites. [01:15:40] Speaker C: Sure. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. [01:15:41] Speaker A: Yeah, might be fun. Might be interesting. I wouldn't mind watching the Descent tour. [01:15:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's no problem. Cool. [01:15:47] Speaker A: Nice. Nice. [01:15:48] Speaker C: Awesome. [01:15:49] Speaker B: Well, anything. [01:15:50] Speaker A: Any other topics that you want to hit on or anything you want to get out there to the public or. [01:15:59] Speaker C: You know, that's like, it's about it. I mean, work is good, but it's busy. I was telling you, I. I've like been trying like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Oh, yeah. And I'm so. I just get like beat up every time. But. But it's you know, I'm. I'm trying to, like, even when I'm super busy, really trying to maintain some kind of. Of exercise, like. Yeah, yeah. I was like, really on top of it like two years ago up to a year ago. Just real consistent in the gym and. And for steady progress. And then when. When life just gets like super stressful and chaotic and it's. You got to like, double down. It's hard to like, to time. Allocate all these things. So I really have to make an effort now. [01:16:43] Speaker A: Yes. [01:16:43] Speaker C: In. Maintain that health. [01:16:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. As I. The older I get, the more I realize that health is wealth for. [01:16:52] Speaker C: For sure. [01:16:53] Speaker A: It's so important. [01:16:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:16:55] Speaker A: I've really been focusing on just the. The basic things. I think you need to focus on sleep. [01:17:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:02] Speaker A: Nutrition, exercise. If you got those three things down. Don't drink too much or do, you know, too many drugs or anything like that, or alcohol. Too much. And I think that's the way to live. [01:17:15] Speaker C: Right. Yeah, I'm all about that. Feel better. And especially for bonsai work, of course, it's physical work. Picking up trees, moving around. So having a injury or getting sick, it's a direct impact on your ability to work and your livelihood. Absolutely. It's kind of like I can't afford to be like, sick or down too often. Just have. Have to be strong and healthy all the time. [01:17:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And I. I really feel like I. Bonsai is very interesting because it makes me want to look forward. [01:17:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:49] Speaker A: And I'm not excited in many ways about aging physically from a physical perspective, but I am excited to see my trees continue to progress. And like, I want to see bonsai in like 20 years from now. [01:18:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:02] Speaker A: I want to come and check out your trees. Check out my trees, Peter. [01:18:06] Speaker C: T. Be like, oh, like falling. [01:18:08] Speaker A: They're gonna be so dope, you know, 20 years from now. But we gotta get there. And we got to get there at a. At a physical and mental level. [01:18:16] Speaker C: That's right. [01:18:17] Speaker A: And so I think we got to give ourselves the best chance possible. [01:18:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:20] Speaker A: And so that means be healthy and fit, I think. [01:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:18:27] Speaker A: Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for taking the time. I really, really appreciate it. And I'm excited to check out your docent tour. [01:18:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:18:35] Speaker A: And hopefully we can chat again it like, very soon. [01:18:39] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:18:40] Speaker A: Awesome. [01:18:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:41] Speaker A: Cool. [01:18:42] Speaker C: Just want me keep this.